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Real Men, Real Journeys: Transforming Lives with The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast

Updated: Dec 21, 2023

Get ready to dive into a world of transformation and resilience with The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast, hosted by the inspiring Shane Martin, the creative mind behind Shane And Simple Blog. In this enlightening episode, Shane is joined by exceptional guests, Anthony Masiello of Love Life Telehealth, Dr. John Lewis of Dr. Lewis Nutrition, and Paul Chatlin, the trailblazer behind Plant Based Nutrition Support Group and Mitchell Bey-Smith of Body By Mitch.

Anthony Masiello shares a compelling story of personal evolution, recounting his switch to a whole food plant-based diet in 2005. The impact was nothing short of extraordinary—he shed 160 pounds, bid farewell to various health issues, and embraced a profoundly improved quality of life. Masiello's journey inspired him to take a leap, leaving his corporate career five years ago to establish Love Life Telehealth. Despite its acquisition last year, the mission endures: ensuring global access to lifestyle medicine, treating the root causes of disease, and promoting health and happiness for all.

Dr. John Lewis adds his unique perspective, having followed a plant-based diet for an impressive 26 years. Growing up in the South, where taste often overshadowed health concerns, Dr. Lewis embarked on his plant-based journey not for weight loss, but due to a history of throat infections. His exploration of physiology, coupled with revelations about the detrimental effects of dairy, led to a significant dietary shift. Dr. Lewis's candid account highlights the power of self-directed exploration and the transformative potential of embracing a plant-based lifestyle.

Watch the epsode here.

But the conversation doesn't stop there—these real men also delve into the world of vegan fast food and plant-based meats, discussing the pros and cons. From taste to health considerations, the candid discussion provides valuable insights for those navigating the plant-based culinary landscape.

The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast continues to be a beacon of authenticity, showcasing real stories that redefine what it means to lead a healthy and fulfilling life. Tune in for more inspiring narratives and practical discussions that bridge the gap between health, lifestyle, and the vibrant world of plant-based living.

>Podcast Episode Transcript:

RMEP Podcast (00:02.358)

Well, gentlemen, thank you for joining me today for another stellar episode of real many plants and, um, I am back among the land of the living after being knocked down a couple of weeks ago with an vicious case of the flu. So first time in my life I've ever had it. So welcome back. Yeah. So I'm back, baby. Yeah, come on. So we have always is, uh, the man himself, Mitchell.

killings and having a good day. I had a good workout. I'm glad to be available to talk about, um, you know, good nutrition and food that can help your body grow. Yeah. And, uh, kick some men's tails in the high gear. So yeah, yeah. Paul, Paul is with us. The ever the, the inestimable Paul, as I like to say, I appreciate it. I deserve it.

I would say that I'm spending my lifetime making sure to work out in the morning, do some meditation, go for a walk, and then all day with the Plant-Based Nutrition Support Group. And right now, get ready. We're about ready to launch the Sage Circle Alliance. So more to follow. Good. And we will definitely get into that. Two new guys that I am a little less familiar with because I've been out of the loop for a couple of weeks, but...

Like I said, I'm back. So I wanted to save the best for last and let you guys introduce yourself. And, um, so, uh, Anthony Marciello, is that, did I say it right? Um, Masiello, but well enough. Yes. I liked, I apologize. So I'm not picky at all. Okay. Anthony, tell us a little bit about yourself and then we'll, we're going to introduce Dr. John. Yeah. So my name is Anthony Masiello. I, um, have, I switched to a whole food plant based diet back in 2005.

was completely life-changing for me. I lost 160 pounds, got rid of a bunch of illness that I had going on. And thank you. And really gained a new, incredibly new quality of life. And since then, I've been doing as much as I can to help others to adopt a similar lifestyle. I unpacked my own story, why did this work for me? And I try to use that to apply forward. And I was...

RMEP Podcast (02:25.57)

About five years ago, I chose to leave my career in corporate America and focus on this professionally as well, and I started a telemedicine company. It started as plant-based telehealth. We were acquired last year, it's now called Love Life Telehealth, but our mission has not changed. Our mission is to make sure that everyone...

in the country and around the globe has access to a doctor who will practice lifestyle medicine and treat the root cause of disease with a lifestyle first approach, so that they can also be incredibly healthy and happy and enjoy the same high quality of life as all of us and what we wish for everyone else. Excellent. Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like your story kind of parallels mine where I was lost about 100 pounds and got passionate about it and left my job of 15 years to

go be a vegan food blogger. And fortunately it worked out. So it's definitely a pattern. And I think it's a testament to what we're doing here is like, is what I'll speak for myself, I didn't know how good I could feel. And once I felt as good as I do now, and I see nods, right, because others experience that as well, and then we just want to be able to share this and help others to be able to do the same for themselves. Sure. So, so, you know, it's interesting, Anthony, about that, when you, when I hear that, I hear, you know, I lost 70 pounds, but

The thing that to this moment still every day I wake up is 12 years ago I'm being wheeled in for bypass surgery and someone says hey would you are you willing to make a lifestyle change? I didn't know what it meant but I said I'm all in and I was all in and within weeks man all of a sudden life was getting better and better and here I am 12 years later no bypass and I wonder myself how many people were given to this day 12 years later are given that same option.

Because so few are because they just trust their doctors. They just not enough people. That's the answer. Not enough people have been given that option. And it's just to this moment, it is absolutely mind blowing. And that's the give back that I have because it's like people, whether they decide to do it or not, that's on them. They're adults. Yeah. If they don't know about it. Sure. Yeah. That's on the system. Yeah. Well, thanks, Anthony. We're going to get into your story too. And I love hearing things like that. And our other guest is Dr. John.

RMEP Podcast (04:50.622)

Lewis and John basically, could you reintroduce yourself before like you did before I hit the record button and he he's not going to be able to be with us for very long for the whole episode. But so I want to definitely get in with our topic today because I feel like after you introduced yourself, right earlier, I feel like it just kind of goes hand in hand. So introduce yourself, john and let everybody know who you are and what you do. Sure, I'd be happy to. My name is john Lewis.

been eating a plant-based diet for the last 26 years, growing up in the South where, you know, my family ate for most, like most families, ate for taste, not for health. I knew nothing about eating for health. I didn't have anybody in my family as a, you know, a guide or a model or a mentor, anything like that. But anyway, I got into it because, not for a weight loss reason, I looked back on my life and I had a lot of throat infections as a kid.

And as I studied physiology professionally, you know, to, to advance my career, I began to discover things about mostly about milk. I mean, that was really, I don't know about you guys, that was the turning point for me. Like dairy just, it just dawned on me after reading so many different articles about how bad dairy is for, for humans that I knew I had to start making changes. And I thought as a drug-free competitive bodybuilder in college, I was actually eating a pretty healthy life.

or diet, my wife, because I was eating very little beef. I had pretty much stopped eating beef at that point because I was concerned about red meat consumption already. So I was pretty much only eating tuna and the occasional chicken, but still quite a bit of dairy. And so that was really a big eye-opener for me. And actually I didn't learn any of this stuff in school. This was really just sort of my own exploration of going to PubMed and typing in

you know, different search terms and then pulling up literally hundreds, if not thousands of articles about the detrimental impact of consuming dairy food on, you know, on human health. But professionally, I spent a couple of decades at the University of Miami Medical School running clinical trials and nutrition, dietary supplements and exercise training. I left academics full time about six and a half years ago to start a dietary supplement company.

RMEP Podcast (07:12.598)

based on what I consider to be the most significant findings of my research career to date, which is the use of certain polysaccharides from Aloe Vera and Rice Brand, which I would put up against any other, you know, nutritional dietary supplement, herb, you name it. I mean, obviously curcumin, vitamin D, you know, certain things can do really amazing things for people, but man, these polysaccharides, I've just seen time and time again, do so many amazing things. And the work that we published

primarily in Alzheimer's disease, excuse me, and multiple sclerosis, were just really beyond our expectations. So I still publish as much as I can, although it's as a businessman, it's not really academic publishing. It's not really, I'd say even in the top 10 of my priority list at this point, but I still wanna have a science-based of what I do. And that's very important for me, not only for dealing with customers, but just because of what I know and for my own personal.

I would say path and journey. It's important to me to be credible and, you know, be a valid person. Anytime I'm talking to people, I want people to appreciate the fact that I'm coming from a very genuine place. I'm not trying just to be a slick marketer or just to sell anything that I think can make a buck. I'm actually promoting things that I would take for myself or give to my family or, you know, be very proud of based on all of my own work. So.

The formula that I have is called daily brain care. I'm very proud of it because again, it's about 20 years of my life that went into it. I've been taking it myself for over 10 years. I've had my mother on it for about 15. We have a three and a half year old daughter. I started her on it when she was six months old when we started introducing solid food into her diet. She is vegan too, by the way. I'm very proud to say that I'm raising her vegan, rearing her vegan because I don't want her eating.

animal food and this girl is healthy as a horse. You can't even believe this girl's language capacity. It's just really amazing how incredible her brain is working at such a young age. My wife's been a little bit more of a challenge, I guess you could say. She's Cuban and not so much in the same mindset. She's mostly there. She has, I guess you could say, a Cuban...

RMEP Podcast (09:36.778)

sort of bent to her perspective that, you know, doesn't really bring her all the way over there any, uh, you know, to the same degree, but she's mostly plant-based it's just, uh, you know, food for us can be a tricky topic. So I tend to not go too down too far down that road unless, uh, you know, she, she pushes me on something, but I'm committed to probably not as much as you guys, at least in terms of, you know, what you do every day with pushing or promoting a plant-based diet. I just don't have time.

You know, in my business, I'm trying to grow my dietary supplement company, but, and I don't do a lot of one-on-work with people either. It's again, very time consuming, as you all know, but anytime somebody, you know, if I do get a customer that says, hey, I'd like to know more about information, you know, more information about nutrition or diet, I certainly go down that path, but it hasn't been that big of a focus for me the last few years just because of how hard it is to grow a brand from the ground floor and try to make that successful.

Yeah. And I think, but I think that's a good point because I do think there is this stigma in the plant-based vegan community sometimes that, you know, you got to say all the things all the time. And, and I think it's like anything. It's like a body, the hand does one thing, the toes do one thing and being able to bring something like what you're doing that focuses on a certain thing is just as important, you know? And so it opens up, I feel like.

with people like you, you know, if you go to the Shane and simple site, you know, that it's all about plant-based recipes. That's what it revolves around. But I think too, with what you're doing, you know, I feel like a lot of times that opens a lot more doors because people don't know that they're probably going to get that kind of advice if they were to ask you directly. So the fact that you're doing this research and creating this thing that's very beneficial. I mean,

I love stories like that because it's almost like you're able to fly under the radar and then you get them in and then it's like a Venus fly traffic. Oh, you know, but man, that is awesome. And just hearing how, again, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. I feel like the things that we're doing, the five of us, they were all founded on this idea of a passion to make things better, to help make people better. And it's like you said, it's like. If.

RMEP Podcast (11:57.63)

Yeah, it's a business and you've got to make money to feed your family and, but you do it because you're passionate about it. And then the fact that it kind of feeds into what you're doing. So I thought it, so let me kind of get into this. Cause I know, like I said, you've got just a few minutes. I do want to talk about, um, what we're seeing with a lot of, um, you know, nowadays,

Being plant-based and being vegan is not what it was 20 years ago. And you said you'd been plant-based what 26 years, John? Yes. Yeah. And I mean, I've been, it'd be 11 years coming up, but I've seen things change in a decade and only imagine how they've changed in 20 years. And I mean, if you had told me 10 years ago, you could go to Burger King and get a

You know, a non meat whopper, you know, I don't think anybody would have believed you. And we're starting to see even in Walmart here in the little town I live in Mississippi, there is a section there's a lot of vegan stuff. I mean, there's vegan mayonnaise, there's vegan cheese, there's tofu, Turkey, in the freezer, there's beyond there's garden and there's all the these things. And I see people buying them actually, because I think there's this idea that this is how I'm going to get better than I'm going to get healthy because

I feel like the lines have started to get blurred a little bit between vegan and what does it mean to be plant-based. I kind of wanted to throw that out there today. There's been this rise of vegan and plant-based foods in grocery stores. I just kind of wanted to hear from you guys and like, hey, is that a good thing? Does it only exacerbate the problem? What are your thoughts on that?

Trendy, trendy trends like everything else in our society is always trends. And so, and it's marketable. So when you can have a trend that's catchy and, and new to the, to the environment, people are going to jump in. Same thing I've seen throughout the years in wellness or training or fitness. You have trends every so often that people are going to jump on the bandwagon and, and look for something that fits their lifestyle so they can say that. This is what I'm doing now. It's a conversation.

RMEP Podcast (14:20.566)

Sure. You know, so I've seen it in the wellness industry from slide step from high impact aerobics to low impact aerobics to body pump. So but the body hasn't changed. So in that messaging, can as a group here, can we keep the consistency in the messaging in that, hey, this is what it is. This is what you want to look for. You want to go as natural as possible and just make it happen.

Yeah, so I think also just to build on that a little bit, Shane, is that I think it also, it always depends. It depends, like I think that there's not a general answer that applies to everyone across the board because there's complexities. There's complexities in the nutritional value of those products and those foods in themselves, but then there's also the behavioral side of things, right? And if they...

prevent someone from doing something that's more distracting from their goals or more harmful to their body, then maybe it's a reasonable option. But if somebody's putting in a lot of work and they're eating these alternative products rather than eating the products that they're used to and it's not enough of a change to really get any benefits, then they're kind of doing a lot of the work.

or most or all of the work, and they're not getting any of the benefits. And that can be very mentally exhausting as well. And that can help people to turn people right back, throw up their arms and say, well, this doesn't work and go back. So I think that the nuances really are incredibly important. And I think that, you know, that comes down to what are individuals, why are they making a change? What are they looking to do? And what are the benefits that they're expecting from themselves from that change?

Look, if I could, I just recently read where Kraft announced a vegan mac and cheese that they're going to be introducing. OK, now, and from what everyone said, by the way, side note, John, good move on not getting deep with your wife on your food choices. He must want to stay married. Yeah, I learned that 12 years ago. Yeah, and I'm still happily married. But.

RMEP Podcast (16:42.566)

My couple thoughts to add to everybody is, first, people say sometimes, well, I'm vegan, and they do it thinking they're going to be healthy. And you look at them and they're not healthy. Yeah. Because I mean, you could have an Oreo and that's vegan, but it's not healthy or the impossible burger we talked about with 18 little bad ingredients. So if you're doing it for animal ethical reasons, awesome. But if you're doing it.

for the planet and you're doing it for your own personal health, you gotta label read, you gotta see what's in that stuff. Because me, I would love to have all the vegan items, but I'm a heart patient. So I can't have any of them for that reason. I would love to have cashew cheese, but I can't have cashews. So everyone, you gotta go down the path that you so choose. The other couple ideas is that I have as, I think that it is confusing. I think that

When I first started, there was a distinct line between what is a vegan? What is somebody who's whole food plant based? And I think that the big companies with all the money that they have, saw the future and started blurring the lines that their association did. And certainly without question, the big companies like Kraft, et cetera, have done that. So again, I think the challenge is to redefine the lines, explain them to people what they are because everyone's got their own.

personal path. And that's, that's challenging, but that's why we're here. Yeah. So John, let me ask you, John, the time you have with what you're doing. And I got on the website looking at the daily brain care on your site and everything. How do you see this playing into what you do? Cause I know you said that, you know, you're building a brand and you've put a lot of time and effort and research into this. So,

with what you're doing and do you see this affecting the people that you deal with? Do you see a, and maybe an equal amount of vegans and non vegans or the people that are buying your product? Like what do you see going on? Or is it just kind of like, Hey, like you said, I don't really get into that world. I've got this business to run. But, um, like if I just come up to you off the street and you say, Hey, I got this daily brain care power powder, and we start talking about it and everything kind of, you know, you know,

RMEP Podcast (19:08.67)

I mean, kind of, are you like, Hey, stay away from these things, do this, or is it, I mean, how does it affect what you do? Yeah. Great question. I, you know, Shane, I really, I used to be, I'd say in 26 years ago, I was, as I was changing over to how I eat today, I was a bit more, um, evangelical, I guess is the best word I used to kind of run around with that.

You know, we as humans, we like to label everything, right? We wanna just, we wanna always slap a label on something. It's important to us to label every damn thing. And I realized as I had done that for a few years and had probably run out of arguing, I just got tired of arguing with people. I mean, I'm happy to debate and talk and share and communicate, but when it starts going down the pathway of an argument,

Man, I'm done with it. I'm too old. I don't care about drama in my life anymore. I I'm not interested in going into politics. Yeah. So I, I just don't want to argue with people. I mean, again, I'm happy to talk about different points of view. I, I was actually on somebody's podcast not too long ago. Who's in the big into the keto business. So you can imagine he eats a lot of meat stuff. Yeah. But I was talking to him about, you know, where, well, where do all

amino acids come from, where do all fatty acids come from? They all originate from plants. No animal, no mammal can make those things. So, you know, it's an interesting conversation when you try to start looking at some of these nuances or comparing, say, the human physiology to the physiology of a lion or an elephant or a cow, or, you know, a lot of these other very common mammals. I mean, look at the differences.

in our physiology, forget our genetics for a minute, just look at our physiology. I mean, it's really pretty apparent how we're aligned with the herbivores in the animal kingdom, not with the omnivores or the carnivores. I mean, it's you're just living in total denial if you think otherwise. But, you know, as again, going back to building the Dr. Lewis Nutrition brand, I just.

RMEP Podcast (21:15.23)

I can't really go down the road of arguing too much. I mean, it's very clear on my website that I talk about being plant-based and, you know, I'm plant-based on my products. I mean, it's very obvious to anybody. I'm not promoting carnivorism or, you know, any of that, any of that stuff. I'm very clear that I'm plant-based in all of my materials. So that's, that's where I try to live. And fortunately, I don't get a lot of people trying to argue with me or shoot me down on my website, at least God knows what

people may say behind my back, but at least, you know, in that respect, I'm, I'm being true to myself and I'm just, I'm just promoting what I believe in. And, and, oh, by the way, the polysaccharides, I don't care if you are vegan or carnivore or keto or zone or whatever your dietary philosophy is, you don't get those from food. I don't know anybody who eats aloe vera. Most of the world wants to eat white rice. So they're not getting any rice brand from eating white rice.

So these polysaccharides are something that are very special and unique, and you really need to get them in a concentrated form in a supplement that you can't get from food. And I used to be the person who said, you don't need dietary supplements. I've done a whole 180 on that. You do need dietary supplements because our water's polluted, our air's polluted, our soil's polluted, genetic modification, all the crap that we put into growing our food today, it affects the nutritional content of our food.

So a tomato today is not a tomato a hundred years ago. It's very different. Yeah. It's not giving us the same nutritional benefit and, oh, you know, and if worst case scenario, all you're doing is creating expensive urine, but the best case scenario is you're helping to protect yourself and you're helping to be optimally healthy. Wow. Yeah. I wish you had more time because I would love to keep going into what you're doing because I was just reading through everything and I have a ton of questions. So maybe we can like.

reschedule and just devote a whole podcast to what you're doing. I would, I would love to get into this, but I'd be happy to. Yeah. And let me in fairness to my host, let me jump cause it's a minute after. So well, thank you for, no, thank you for making time and we'll be sure to put a link to your product in the show notes. Great. Thank you guys. Thanks John. Okay guys. So kind of going off what he said, I mean, um,

RMEP Podcast (23:35.49)

kind of changing a little bit. I wanna go back to Paul, you said this and then Anthony, you said it. You were talking a little bit about defining the lines and what's your goal and what's your purpose. So, I've talked to people, I'll just see people and I'm not gonna say I haven't had some of these products. I mean, we've been renovating a house the last two and a half years. We've been migrating from rental houses back in.

You know, it's just some places we had to stay that didn't have a kitchen. I mean, it's been crazy. And so sometimes you, you opt for the least worst ops, you know? And so I would tell people if they asked me, do you see any benefit of all these vegan products that are out there? I mean, I would say to some extent, yes, I, I do from the standpoint of, you know, if I go to somebody's cookout on July 4th, you know,

and I take a block of tofu, I know they're going to destroy it if they try to grill it or if they try to do, you know, it's like, or, and, you know, I think so it, and I think some, for some people, it can be an entryway. The problem that I'm seeing with a lot of these products is I see people go in the grocery store and loading their carts up with them and there's no vegetables, there's no fruits, there's no whole grain. And then they're wondering why they still have to stay on statins or take diabetic medication. So kind of going back to

what you're talking about, Paul, and you kind of said, you know, defining what you're doing and what's the purpose and everything. So just for a minute, let's sit there. Like, do you see the pros of these products or pro of the vegan fast foods? And if you do, what are they?

RMEP Podcast (25:23.038)

I mean, again, if you are an animal person for animal sake, there's the pro that to have an impossible burger, you're not killing a cow and it helps the planet. So I see that. That's about as far as I go in that area because, you know, like I became an obsessive label reader, you know, and again, being a heart disease patient,

that's that I wanted to not have surgery. That was my goal. Right. So I just think that for animal rights, perfect. But as far as for improving health, I would argue that I'm not sure how much healthy you're going to be. If you eat cashew cheese versus regular cheese versus a regular burger versus impossible, because there are just so many ingredients. And when I get passed about four or five ingredients, I can't buy it.

You know, I just can't do it. But I will say to those listening, that when I am traveling and I go light on something and I need to eat, first of all, I can go 24 hours with just drinking water and I'm fine. Okay, so I'm never lost, okay? But under the situation, I could see myself, and I have done this, where I would go to a subway. Now I used to get whole grain, whole wheat bread only.

but they have a whole wheat bread. I could take that along with all the vegetables and the vinegar and I could fill my stuff up, I could get full on that. And I used to just never do it. Now, occasionally if I had to, I would. So I'm just saying that I think there are benefits. I think for animals, a big benefit, but for human benefit, I don't see that big a benefit. Well, and I think that's the thing. It's like human benefit. It's like, again,

Um, yeah, yeah. Like, and I'll be the first to admit, man, if we're traveling, I'm hitting subway if it's a long trip. Cause I'm, you know, either that or Chipotle. So, but, but I mean, yeah, but let me come up through, but let me throw this out there. I think people will say that, Hey, you know, it's better for the environment. It's better for this, you know, it's better for the animals. And I don't disagree with any of that, but I kind of feel like.

RMEP Podcast (27:51.33)

where vegans kind of hurt the cause. And look, I'm not saying everybody's gotta look like Mitchell or look like Rip Esselstyn or Rich Roll. That's not what I'm saying. But, you know, it doesn't help the cause when you've got 250, 300 pound vegans sitting on the road, protesting climate change. And I'm like, you know, how about you take care of your own house first? Correct. Is that right? If this is the outcome, I don't wanna, you know, and I'm like, again,

If that's fine, if you're saying I'm just going to eat non animal based products because I want to do this, but I'm like, you're not really helping the cause. I mean, and that again, that may be another rabbit trail y'all want to jump in on, but, but I get it. I mean, that's what I say. I think it's, I do feel that I do think they can fill a void, but the problem is majority of people like John McDougall, I love what he says. He said, most people can't give themselves permission and then bring themselves back.

You know, it's kind of like once they make that decision to kind of jump over the cliff and just start indulging in these things, because people love it. They love justification for their bad behavior. Right. We all do. I mean, I know. And so self-governance is we've talked about the idea of having people around us that can call us out on our bad behavior, you know, but, but yeah, so I would love to hear a little bit from Mitchell too, because you were stirring there, you've got something.

But one thing I want to, you know, but before we jump in, I just want to say, I mean, this is real many plants, right? I mean, we need to be empowered individuals. We need to be people who are making purposeful decisions to take care of ourselves. Sure. We are not the people. We are not the people who are looking to just do what's easiest. Right. Like we see where that gets us. That's going to get a status quo. And that's not good for anybody. We need to be mindful. We need to be purposeful in our decision making and we need to be making well informed.

Decisions about what we're doing for our life and understanding what the consequences of any of that is and I think when you get In that mindset the idea of convenience kind of falls to a second third fourth fifth Place on the priority list and what's best for us? I mean, there's a lot of times where it might be can be more convenient to You know to have a beer or smoke a cigarette or you know or participate in something, you know, or go along with the flow

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and followed by peer pressure. But that's not what real man eat plants is about, right? Like, I mean, we're here to take care of ourselves. So that took me longer than I wanted to, but I would like to hear from Mitchell and then maybe we could all get back to that. Yeah. But your point, I agree with you. I think Anthony, that at the end of the day, we have to just be determined to make better choices and preparation. So pro and con, is it good to have a Beyond Meat? My first question and thought is, what is a Beyond Meat?

Let's stop. We got to deal with it like Paul is saying the ingredients. Hey, no, this is not good for you. Don't do it. It's not for me. I'm not going to do it. Sure. I'm not going into Burger King for a quick fix because I haven't prepared for my day or I feel like, or think I am going to die if I don't eat anything. I'm not, I can spend the whole day or a couple of days without eating if I have to, but we're not in that type of society. We have a place where we can go. We can find a place to go find something.

that's plant based or vegan based, go into the grocery store, get you a piece of fruit. And now that's a problem because it has the pesticides. So there's so much going on. So the lesser of evils, even the lesser of the evils, may be a bad choice. So I'd rather get the lesser of the evil with the pesticides than eat something that I know is not manmade or not from the earth, beyond. I'm not going beyond something to get something.

I'm going to the something. I'm going to get me a piece of food. So the play of words is like, again, I'm not going to let the marketeers, I'm not going to let the big corporations fool me again. I'm off that stuff. I'm off the Burger King. I'm off the Wendy's. I'm off the fast food, the Kentucky Fried Chicken. I'm off the fake food. So now I'm going to get another fake food because the labeling makes it happen. So yeah, I'm cringing like, ah, not a choice for me. And if the listeners think that's a choice, good luck.

Tell me how that works out. Yeah. You seem to get kind of riled up too. When I talked about people protesting and not taking care of that. That's what Anthony was talking about. Like really love to hear what you were going to say then. No, it's all of it. I'm going to agree. Yeah. I'm like, wait, okay. I'm going to say I'm plant-based. So I'm, I'm vegan, but I'm, I'm not taking responsibility. I'm doing.

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I'm not taking care of myself. I'm selfish. I call it, I'm self care. I'm really into, look, whatever I put into my body, I can control. I will control. I take that approach. So, if I'm gonna read a label, I'm gonna find out, is this really from the earth? Or was this chemically made or from a laboratory? And so, when you look at the lines, like you say, I'm protesting, protect the earth, or.

Peter, don't hurt animals, but I go to horse racing. I see a horse get whipped in the butt and run around and race. So it's so many inconsistencies. It's nothing consistent. So if I could find a consistent line in my life and live that and share that, say, hey, I'm not telling you what to do. You don't have to do as I do. But what is consistent in your life? Is it making good choices or being consistent in discipline or being consistent in being not disciplined?

And I think we have a lot of individuals in our society that are more comfortable with being consistent, being inconsistent in discipline. I wanna be consistent in discipline. And so turning 60, God willing, next May, I wanna say, this is my lifestyle, this is what I do. It works for me, I'm getting quality time on earth. So, make your choice from that. You know, one thing too that I would add to that is, for me, is I don't like cooking.

Okay, I'm just not a big fan of it. This weekend, I made a frittata. And the heels of that, I made low-main vegetables. And the combination of both, it took me like two, three hours. I'm like, oh my God, you know, like it's just, it's too much to me almost. But here's what isn't too much for me. I wake up and I look in the mirror and I have an honest moment and I say to myself, what is the number one goal? Well, and for me,

It's I am the oldest male live in Chatlin ever. I am the head of my family. And I've got grandkids and young three sons. And I wanna live a long healthy life. And to do that, I have to be a whole food plant-based in oil. That's just it. That's the most important thing. So everything else is secondary. So when I put the time in to do the cooking, I may not like it.

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I put on the headset, I'll listen to a podcast, I'll do some chin ups and pull ups, I'll do other things. I still hate it, but I do it. And I've done it for 12, almost 13 years now. And the one thing I keep reminding myself is if I wanna achieve my long-term goal of living longer, this is what I have to do. And it's the preparation. Mitchell, you mentioned, you know, you gotta prep for things. You know, I'm the only one in this world, I think, sometimes that has to sit there and say,

I'm gone for two days. What am I gonna have for the next two days? That's all part of the process, just like I don't like cooking, I don't like prepping, but what I do like is living and feeling good because everybody my age and all my friends, it's a complaint thought. This is hurting, that's hurting, this pill, that. Sure. It's exhausting to hear it. It's exhausting. So I'm just saying that like, if the goal is to live a long, healthy life, then you got the tools to do it.

And by the way, side note is always, I saw a grape the other day that was a size of probably a big strawberry. Oh, the strawberry was the size of an apple. There's something going on. There's something going on here. So, you know, like I said, what else in doubt, go ahead and have it. It's better than eating, you know, straight ice cream, cheese, chocolate, all the other stuff. But it's a little scary guys, isn't it? Yeah. There's definitely something going on. Like,

I think that's the other thing too is we're like one of the only countries in the world that lets half the crap get into our food, be washed in our food, be grown in our food. And I keep telling people, I'm like, if you're waiting for the government to solve this problem, it's never going to happen. Because you know, I remember, I think it was when Obama was president, the Congress, and the only reason I bring Obama up is because it was during that administration. I just remember the one time Congress came together.

to talk about Monsanto and they were talking about where they were wanting everything to be labeled GMO, non-GMO, Monsanto, and of course, you know, and I'll just tell you, even before we started doing a plant-based diet, my wife hated Monsanto. She'll tell you, she thinks they're the most evil organization on the face of the planet. But she said, and so I used to kind of...

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poke and prod at her and make fun of her. And then of course I went plant-based and you start looking where your food comes from and then you're like, Oh wait, they really are, you know, horses asses, you know, so, um, but anyway, it came up in Congress and they were talking about the things that can't be in food in Europe and things like that, and they just wanted the products labeled and Monsanto it will, I'll have to say it's the one time that both houses were bipartisan almost unanimously because Republicans and Democrats.

voted down to not label. And I mean, they're bought and paid for by Monsanto. I mean, they are bought and paid for. Think about it too, they use Roundup to kill weeds. They use Roundup for our food. Yes. That's crazy. Yes. And then the things they do, like if you've got an organic farmer that's 20 miles away from a Monsanto farm, that they've bought these farmers, and just by sheer pollination, if the wind carries...

any of the pollination to the organic farmer, Monsanto can sue the organic farmer. I mean, is it absolutely in what world is that okay? I mean, in the USA, that's what's okay. Only in the USA. Isn't it amazing? There's a reason why they have, you know, big, you know, you can't walk into a meat factory or a fish farm or a chicken farm. You can't see it. You cannot see what's going on.

And I used to always say, I laugh at this. It's like, you know, what they did is they, they give the steroids and the bad stuff that's GMO, so they could have a higher yield, not only of the corn that they feed them, but have bigger cows, bigger chickens, bigger, you know, more fish. And bigger humans. Right. And then they put it all together and they grind it up or package it, and they give it to us. And the beautiful thing about our body is it only takes most times, you know, 30, 45, 50 years.

for you to see the effects of it in a bad way. Yeah. Well, it's like, why isn't anybody saying anything about that ever? You never hear anything. You know, when my wife and I were over in Prague, it's Chechia now was Czech Republic then about 10 years ago. And obviously no, no longer than that. Oh my gosh. It was 2010. So it was like 13 years ago. So it was about three or four years before I went plant based.

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And we were staying with some friends over there and I went to the fridge and was just going to make omelets for everybody. And I took the eggs out and there were feathers in the egg carton and they said, be careful, the shells are really thin over here. And I thought shells are really thin. So you got bad chickens. They go, no, we have healthy chickens over here because they don't feed them arsenic to.

And then I noticed that walking along the streets, the produce, the bread, you know, they take bread out the day they like they put it out the day they make it. And then they take it away at the end of the day because it doesn't sit on the shelf for two months. Is there and that's when it started hitting me. Like just I would watch Europeans eat. And for the most part

you know, they weren't eating like Americans and they weren't eating the, and like you go into the stores over there and just reading the ingredients. It's crazy. And they label whether it's GMO, non-GMO, all this, I mean, and the things that aren't allowed in food. And so I guess my whole point to that is it's like, if we're talking about these vegan products, I go into Walmart to get blueberries. I'm like, why am I getting blueberries from Mexico? Why am I getting it? You know, and then it's, or, or across the seas. It's like, I just, I, it,

It's like you said, yeah, I guess at the end of the day, we should default to the strawberry that's on the shelf wash it, but it's better than going and grabbing a Snickers bar, but then it's like, well, what, what the hell was that strawberry washed in, you know? And it's like, and so it's, it's like, you know, you just, I guess at the end of the day, you do the best you can with the best you have and right. And it's at the end of the day, it becomes another day. And at the end of the day, it becomes another day because our society,

culture has allowed the capitalists of the companies to dictate how we live. And we as a society have accepted that or have not found the alternative that we have to take, which is harder, to raise it yourself. Grow your own fruit and vegetables. Who has the land? That's why somebody in particular is buying a whole bunch of land to control food, because everyone needs to eat. So

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He's buying land to control the food, to partner with the masantos so that we can stay sick. You can say it. You're talking about Satan Gates is what you're talking about. Yeah. So it's a playbook that they know that's working on the back end and returning money. So when we say is it pro or con to pick? Yeah, I can say yes. Good. Why not don't have the bar, the candy bar, go have your

burger from McDonald's because it's a vegan based burger. That's enough to me, to me, that's a lot. It's not vegan based, it's chemical based and it was made to sell because they can sell it. Now they can add another product to their line. I'm a drug dealer in my neighborhood. I got another product, it's crack. Hey, it's a derivative of cocaine and some other stuff. Hey, I got another product, I got cannabis.

So we play with words in our society. So cannabis now is no longer marijuana. We, it's cannabis. It's the healthier heroin. So yeah. And look, I love that. As we go into these, the nuances, I mean, it's clearly absurd, right? Yes. And I think it's also kind of scary.

But I'm thinking about the person who's listening to this and who's trying to understand what they can do. The other side that I want to make sure that we share and I would love to hear others thoughts on is that it's also, I'm going to say incredibly easy to live this lifestyle and to eat a very healthy whole food plant-based diet. Sure.

Because I think that all of these things that we've been discussing are incredible reasons on why we need to seek that. But I would like to hear a little, I mean, it really is as simple as pulling off the highway, finding a grocery store and buying a bunch of bananas and get right back on the road, right? If you want it to be, right? And maybe that doesn't feel appealing to people, but the other thing I would like people to know is that there are a ton of us out there who are doing exactly that.

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And I know Paul's community, but the plant-based nutrition support groups, like you can really join a community of tons of people across the country who are doing that. And if you follow more and listen to more of the episodes on Real Men Eat Plants, you'll meet a whole bunch of people who have done exactly that for themselves. And what you find is what I would love to do, and what I think we can all do is help to normalize that part of this lifestyle. We can make it just as normal as driving into...

of the drive through. I mean, you could even stop at the Walmart, right on the side of the highway. And you could go in there and find the produce section and you could grab a you know, just grab some fruit and get back on the road. And you might want to if you want to go into some details, you might want to check the World Health Organization. And you might or know the I forget what the organization No, not the World Health Organization. I forget what it is now that

Um, environmental working group, EWG, and they'll tell you which are the most contaminated fruit. Yeah. You can get the dirty. You want to avoid. Yeah. Maybe you want to avoid the dirty dozen, but it's very easy. Once you, once you get beyond that, you know, I mean, I've got friends who go and they, they just pick up a can of chickpeas and they can eat them. And that might sound gross to people, but once you try it, you know, I mean.

maybe you're a hot sauce guy. Maybe you pick up the hot can of chickpeas, you drain them out, you put a little bit of hot sauce in there and there, and there you go. So there's a whole bunch of really easy things. I'm gonna go so far as to say incredibly enjoyable things that can really, we can do to live this lifestyle, reap all the benefits in the world and kind of opt out of that other kind of scary system that we were all just kind of talking about. Yeah, and I'll say this, and I do wanna say this. I have seen because

In my family on both sides, I'm the only, I mean, and you know, obviously in my house, but outside of our house with in-laws and, you know, cousins and brothers and everything like that, we're the only plant-based family. And so, and I will say, I do think it has been good for holidays. Like on a Thanksgiving or a Christmas when we have people come in and we want to make them a.

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a con pie or we want to make them a certain dish. I do feel there is a place to some extent to help transition people to show them, Hey, you can. And I tell people, I got kind of got in trouble with another famous vegan food blogger. Cause I think we were doing a podcast or something. I said, Hey, eating vegan is easy. These vegan websites that make cakes and pies. And I said, that's easy because there's so many, there's so many

vegan equivalents to the animal counterpart now, the butters, the oils, the cheeses and stuff. And it's like, what are you doing any different? You're just taking the same old mac and cheese and using it. You know, it's like to me, the creativity comes from trying to cook as whole as possible with the whole grains and making sausage out of oats like I do or stuff like that. You know, that's where the creativity comes in. And I love that. Unlike Paul, who hates to cook. So I think but I get it. I mean, it does require a.

different way of thinking of, you know, yeah, if I cook a whole meal, I can't just grab a slab of meat and some cheese and put it in the stove and it's done. You know, I'm having to combine things and flavor things and there's a process. But again, that's my job. I enjoy it and I love to do it. But I do think I do want to say, I think governed correctly a couple of times of a year for me, I like, I tell people, these are not healthy products. I like to say they're less dangerous and unhealthy.

Okay, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna forgo the cholesterol, you know, or things like that. But I do feel like it kind of helps bridge the gap with some people and get the conversation started. Again, the problem is, I think you got people loading their grocery carts up and thinking, you know, I heard a lady in Burger King one day, I stopped and got a salad and a glass of water and, and she's on the phone and she goes, yeah, I'm about to get that new vegan Whopper. I get health changes and I'm like, okay, you've totally missed the point. You know?

So I was working with a group years ago and it's a senior group. So I'm doing a class after every class or before the class. So what did you have to eat? So in inner city and the woman said I had a Burger King. I said, oh man, really? So she said before you get upset, let me tell you. I said why? She said normally I order a Whopper. This weekend I ordered a Whopper Junior. I said good job.

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So she minimized the portion size. So she was least thoughtful. So the thought is you reduce to remove, you reduce to remove. So you start reducing the things that may not be as good for you. And then you try to, then you talk about alternatives of how to replace them. So same thing with fitness and wellness. For Paul, I don't like cooking either, but in my neighborhood, I know that I can find some places that cook fresh food for the day.

that fits my palate as well as plant-based in nature. So I have a string of restaurants that I know if I wanna eat something real quick or something that's healthier for my lifestyle, I can go to those places throughout the day or throughout the week. You know, for just to let people know, I freely admit I hate cooking, but one thing for sure is.

I have the same lunch and breakfast every day and I have no problem with it. Wow, it's oatmeal with all the fruit you can imagine and cinnamon spice. And I also have a huge kale salad with a vinegarette. So it's like, that's not the problem. The beautiful thing is this week, and I mentioned that I had, I made a frittata and a vegetable lo mein. Guess what? The vegetable lo mein was a 10. Like it tasted,

great. So now going forward is I'm going to and I have been batch cooking so I got these all these huge pots. So the beautiful thing is this stuff freezes beautifully. Okay now I can't say I head over heels in love with the food but I like it enough and I've got my top 10 and I just repeat because at the end of the day what's my number one goal? To be healthy. Healthy. Yeah. I'm gonna I like that.

I like that Paul made his own dish and rated it a 10 himself. No, it's funny you say that. I've never given out to anybody a 10. I always tell them it's a 9.5 of my family and friends, except it was a 10. I gave myself a 10. Good for you. The other point that I would like to make sure that people are listening to know is that while this lifestyle is very easy to do, and we just talked about how to

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you know, different ways that all of us are doing that, is I think I personally, and I would guess that you guys as well, I can respect how hard it is to change. And Mitchell, when you talk about that person making that decision to go from the Whopper to the Whopper Jr., I don't discount that at all. That is significant because that person is learning how to make the change and change is hard. And the really hard part is change can happen in as soon as maybe two or three or four months.

But sometimes like for me, it probably took two and a half years, right? To figure it out. And that whole two and a half years was challenging. Yeah. But, but, but when you come out on the other side, it feels easy and you're like, wait, why did I wait to do this? You know, why did it take me so long to figure this out? Why did it do that? Because we look back and it's, and it seems very easy, but, but I would do want to fully respect and appreciate everybody's making their choices because.

you're taking the steps that's going to lead you right to where you want to be. You just have to do it long enough to get through that. I think that's a great point. Like respecting people's choices to make. Like a lot of people, like you said, Mitchell would have seen, Oh, well I'm not going to order a main whopper. I'm going to order a whopper junior. And I think for some people that is a huge change in thought, you know, and it was like, and it's amazing the people that come out of the woodwork and I get it. I, I kind of

I'm a very black or white type person. Like I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't function well in the middle or in the gray very area very much. If I ask you a question, I want a yes or a no, not maybe we'll think about it. Like, no, no. I, you know, I can't live like that, but I want to govern and extend and be, and be gracious to people and like, what's their story, where are they coming from?

How do they think and how do they respond in life? And so for some people making a decision to eat one hot dog instead of three at a meal, that's a huge thing. Hey, one more thing on that, which is, and this is a real man move. I used to think that people could make the change. If I did, everybody, anybody could. Now I'm suggesting people who are considering this. Go see a psychologist and I'm not saying something's wrong with you. Yeah. I'm saying.

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You need to have some little tricks because when you make that change Every friend who's not plant-based or vegan every worker Every family member the world is not set up to support you You need to learn how to support yourself as a real man And the way to do it is go seek some expert help who could say hey under these situations Here's what you should be thinking. I wish I would have done it 12 years ago. I can now help people with that today, but

There's not enough of us. You know what? And I think that's an excellent point because I think there's this stigma. Like if I ask for help or if I go to see a counselor or I mean, so I was in, you know, I was in the ministry world for 15 years and the last church I worked at, the pastors came and said, hey, you're going to go to the Barnabas Center. It's this counseling place in Charlotte. And I'm like, I don't have problems. I don't need to go to a counseling center. Like they go, no, you're going to go because we all we all need to talk about things.

And my wife and I went together and the counselor we had, I remember Pete, he was an engineer at one time and he just kind of sit and looked at you before it, but where you ever said the thing and before he'd say a thing. And at one point I looked at my wife and I said, I have no idea why we're here. And turns out, man, there was so much shit that we unloaded over the course of going, dude, I will tell you, I will tell people this.

I wish that's one of the things I miss about Charlotte because I miss going to counseling because the whole point is not whether you're having these major problems or issues, but sometimes having people there that can help you process, learn why you do what you do and sometimes just talking in confidence to people. You know, I mean, it was one of the best things. And so

that we ever did. And so we would do it as a couple and we would do it individually. And I just, I mean, it's what I would encourage people. It's like, yeah, don't just assume because your life's not falling apart, you couldn't benefit from someone to talk to outside of friends and family that can go, Oh, well, hey, let's peel back that layer a little bit. You said this, you know, and it's like, and I do tell people that if I've done coaching, as far as, you know, talking about how to

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Cause for me, when I switched over, it was like night and day. Like I said, I I'm an all or nothing type person because I know if I give myself permission to do moderation, I'm going over the clip, like, you know, it's. And so, um, but I tell people when they talk and they go, they would say, I would love to do what you do, but I don't know if I can go as radical, meaning just completely plant. Well, you can, but we need to talk about how you're made up. And so, but they'll always say, well, where's one place I can start just

know that can help me. And I'll always say, get dairy out of your diet. Just get dairy and see how you feel in a week. And so, you know, learning and listening to people and listening to their stories and learning who they are. It's like you said, Paul, yeah, I realize I'm very guilty of going, well, hey, if I can do it, anybody can do it. But the thing is, I haven't taken time to hear their story. I haven't taken time to see the baggage they carry because the truth is a lot of us, and I was an emotional eater.

And I do think that, you know, listening to where people are and what they do and how they do it. I mean, and so I kind of kind of coming back to our conversation with these idea of vegan fast foods. I'm less quick to judge when I see people loading their carts up with this now, because part of me is going, especially here in BFE, Mississippi, you know, out in the middle of nowhere, little town. It's a huge thing to see somebody throw something like that into their cart.

You know, when meat here is a sport, you know, I mean, I mean, here in the south, like I said, we said pork is a seasoning here. It's in everything. And so to see people, so I'm thinking maybe they're consciously trying to do something. And the worst thing I could do is come in and rob them of the joy or the accomplishment they feel that they're making if that's if that's why they're doing it, you know. And so I don't want to sound like we're trying to demonize.

vegan fast food products. I think it's like anything else. Are they the healthiest option? We would all say unanimously, absolutely not. Can they benefit someone on their journey? I think so. Yes. But if people come to us, what would we do? We'd say, okay, now let's supplement this. Now think about this. And like you were saying, Anthony, run in and grab a thing of bananas instead of, you know,

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whatever the alternative would be. And it's case dependent, right? So like, I wouldn't, like, you can't tell that to everybody to go grab the bananas, right? And it's like, just like Mitchell's friend said, you know, that she made that choice for herself. It's really individualized. It depends on where everyone is on their own personal journey and what stage they're at, what their goals are, you know, all of those kinds of things. I think that, I think the thing that we've...

we've done a reasonable job, a good job of today is helping people to know that they're in the driver's seat, that they can make these choices for themselves and they can do what they wanna do. And the options are real. I just finished actually a couple of weeks ago a peer support class. And in that class it was for substance abuse. A lot of the participants were substance abusers from narcotics or alcohol.

And I was had to raise my hands and guys, I'm not here. I'm here to learn. I'm not here recovering, but your stories are making it easier for me or, or make it easy for me to be able to support individuals that I may come in contact. So even with food, you peer support you. I'm going to listen. I'm going to, I'm not going to, um, judge. I'm going to say, okay, what do you think are good options? Help them find a solution.

to themselves and say, based on where you're at, why do you think could work for you? And so that's what I got from that class. So it's actually helping me as a trainer, as a life coach, but also as a peer support person that I can use these techniques with nutrition. Yeah. Everyone's got a success story. Everyone's succeeded in something in their lifetime. And I always ask people, just tell me the story that you felt like, God, you did it.

Tell me how that felt and tell me how you did it, whatever that is. And then I just take those words and put a rate into a life change. Yeah, I think that's it. And I mean, I feel like this is one of those topics we could go on and on and we can talk about, but I do think that at the end of the day where I feel like we're all kind of coming to terms is like everybody's different, everybody has a story and that you went pardon the words,

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pun, but you win more flies with honey than you do vinegar. And if we're saying that if we're wanting men, especially to adapt this lifestyle to take care of themselves and to take care of their families and to just those around them, and we realize the best way to do that is feeding your body with a whole foods plant-based diet, then at the same time we got to realize that not everybody is going to get there the way we did.

And even the four of us. And so, and I was talking to Dr. Milton Mills. Um, he was in, you know, game changers and everything. And we were speaking at the same conference in Omaha several months ago. And you know, he's just, he's, I love that guy. He's been one of my kind of heroes and just hearing him talk. And he's just, I mean, his story is unbelievable. Like how he got to where he was. And it was just the two of us sitting in a room for the speakers. And we were the only two.

And we just shared our stories and I just thought stories are where it's at because you know, to hear everybody's path, but anyway, he was talking about a patient that he had and they were having some kind of severe reaction and stomach issues and they were like, it was, they were just anything cheese. They loved cream cheese, sour cream, dairy and everything. And he told them, he goes, yes.

My option would be for them to get away from the cheese period or whatever, but trying to get them to where they needed to be. He said, look, when you go to the market, try these vegan cheeses like the follow your hearts and things like that. That was the first, that was the entrance for them. They did their issues went away because it was the dairy that was messing them up. And he said, gradually they got to wean them away. And I think, you know, the fact he could have been hardcore.

He could have said, no, we're going to cut it all out. We're going to do this. But he also may have never seen that patient again. And so helping kind of, and being there to guide them. And I think, I think that's kind of an example of what we're talking about. Like looking at where people are, how are we going to help them? What's going to be best for them? And at the end of the day, not shaming, like holding people accountable and shaming people is two different things. Sometimes you got to have tough love, but

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I don't think any of us here would say, Hey, we want to shame. I know we joke about, Hey, women guilt your man into cooking and you know, but, you know, we don't want to see anyone run away because they've felt shamed or done the right, the wrong thing. You know, no, we're here to welcome everybody and welcome everybody to do what they want to do, not to do what we want them to do or anybody else wants them to do help people to do what they want to do. It's wonderful. Yeah. Guys. We have come to.

actually went a little over an hour as any parting thoughts of wisdom and philosophy you'd like to share before we end this episode. Each by each life's a cinch. Yard by yard life's a heart. Let's work it by inches. There you go. Paul love that. Yes, been great chatting with you guys. Mitchell, that was beautiful, man. That was beautiful. And I'm gonna I thought this was great.

You know, just one day at a time. That's my motto. One day. Yeah. Just do my wife always says, just do the next thing. Not don't look in things down. Just do the next thing. What's next? Yes. Well guys, I had a blast. Thank you for taking your day and joining us here at real mini plants. And we're solving the world problem inch by inch. And there you go. Give me a shot. Soon, Anthony. Okay. All right.

Uh, and a Mitchell as always, buddy. Thank you. Wonderful to talk with you guys. Yes. It's a, it's a, it's a, um, it's a balm for the soul. First thing. Wonderful. Thank you guys. You guys have a great day and we will see you again soon. I'm sure. All right. Peace. All right. I see you. Bye bye.



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