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Redefining Masculinity: Insights from Brian Herskowitz, Paul Chatlin, and Mike Young

Updated: Mar 11

In the latest episode of the Real Men Eat Plants Podcast, Bryan sat down with three remarkable individuals who are redefining what it means to be a man in today's world. Brian Herskowitz, Paul Chatlin, and Mike Young shared their perspectives on masculinity, health, and the power of plant-based living. Here are some nuggets of wisdom from their insightful conversation:

Paul Chatlin: As the founder of the Plant-Based Nutrition Support Group, Paul Chatlin brings a unique perspective on masculinity. Reflecting on his own journey from being a powerlifter to overcoming heart disease, Paul emphasizes the importance of leading by example. For him, true manliness lies in living a life of compassion and being a positive influence on those around you. His transformation highlights the strength that comes from prioritizing health and well-being.

Brian Herskowitz: A screenwriter, director, and martial arts teacher, Brian Herskowitz challenges the notion that masculinity is confined to traditional stereotypes. He believes that every man is a "real man," and masculinity is about embracing physicality and fearlessly navigating the world. Brian's journey to veganism was inspired by a desire for optimal health, debunking the myth that plant-based living is incompatible with masculinity. His story underscores the importance of openness to change and redefining personal identity.

Mike Young: Founder of, Mike Young advocates for health, longevity, and environmental sustainability. Dedicated to the outdoors, Mike shares his perspective on masculinity rooted in nature. He believes that true manliness involves reconnecting with the natural world, getting hands dirty, and embracing physical challenges. Mike's holistic approach to health encompasses not only personal well-being but also compassion for animals and the planet, reflecting a deeper understanding of masculinity in

harmony with nature.

In discussing masculinity, the guests unanimously agree that it is a multifaceted concept that transcends stereotypes. Masculinity is about authenticity, resilience, and making positive choices for oneself and others. Whether it's through leading by example like Paul, embracing change like Brian, or reconnecting with nature like Mike, these men are paving the way for a more inclusive and compassionate definition of masculinity.

The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast continues to challenge stereotypes and inspire listeners to explore the benefits of a plant-based lifestyle. By featuring diverse voices and sharing personal experiences, the podcast encourages men to prioritize their health, expand their perspectives, and redefine what it means to be a "real man." Join the conversation and discover the transformative power of plants for your body, mind, and spirit.

With each episode, Real Men Eat Plants is breaking down barriers and fostering a community where everyone, regardless of gender, can thrive on a journey towards holistic health and wellness. Tune in, be inspired, and join the movement towards a greener, healthier future.

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Podcast Transcript:

DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Real Men Eat Plants: Redefining Masculinity

Bryan (00:01.526)

Hello everybody and welcome to the Real Men Eat Plants podcast. I'm your host Bryan Dennstedt and joining me today is a bunch of great real men who eat plants. Thank you all for being here. Let's just go around the horns, say hello, and give everybody a quick intro on who you are and how we're hanging out today. So who wants to kick us off?

paul chatlin (00:24.747)

I'll start. My name is Paul Chatlin. I'm the founder of the Plant-Based Nutrition Support Group, the largest support group in the world. And I'm also the co-founder of the Sage Circle Alliance. Coming to you within the next 30 to 60 days, we're going to create an alliance of all connections worldwide for people who want to share resources and assist in growing this movement. Thank you.

Bryan (00:53.202)

Awesome, Paul. Thanks for being here. We're excited to hang out with you today. Maybe I'll toss it over to Brian for his intro.

Brian Herskowitz (01:01.174)

I'm Brian Herskowitz. I'm primarily a screenwriter, director, filmmaker, but I also I teach at Boston University in Los Angeles. They have an LA campus and I also teach martial arts. So I'm kind of a I'm a Renaissance guy sort of.

Bryan (01:16.215)


paul chatlin (01:17.271)


Bryan (01:19.206)

I love it. I love it. And you've got quite the story, Brian. Thanks for being here. And last but not least is Mike Young hanging out from the forest. Where are you today, Mike? Introduce yourself.

Mike Young (01:30.056)

All right, I'm Mike Young. I am the founder of Yeah, I'm in the forest, a real man in the woods.

The Ocala National Forest, which is where our headquarters are. We are a nonprofit that specializes these days in healthspan and longevity. And of course, people, animals, and our planet, all that kind of stuff wrapped together.

Bryan (01:50.686)

I love it. Thank you so much, Mike, for being with us and hanging out from the forest. Um, today's topic is, is to me, a really fun one because it really defines why I started this whole thing, you know, 13 years ago, you know, what is a real man? Um, on that front, I know my mind was completely blown 13, 14 years ago when I started this transition to a plant based life and I've just been hit with a challenge after challenge as a real man.

man who eats plants on that front. So I wanted to unpack masculinity and what is the real man a little bit today on our topic. So we've got a couple segments we'll walk through and I'm excited to get all your input and just sort of help shape the vision for what is the real man in our opinions.

and help put that out there in the world and challenge people to comment on this video and tell us what their thoughts are and be glad to do some follow-up episodes on this because I don't think we'll be able to unpack this topic in the 45 minutes that we have or so. So thank you all again for being here. I'd love to start with that question of like what is masculinity? And so if I just pull up the Wikipedia page real quick I'll read this off kind of a thing but

Masculinity, according to Wikipedia, manhood or manliness is a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles associated with men and boys. It's basically a social construct that we've created on that front. And you know,

any kids and women and any gender out there can show masculine qualities and things like that. But I'd love to see each of you help me unpack what your definition is of masculinity. So from the forest, Mike, hit us with your thoughts first.

Mike Young (03:44.766)

Well, back to nature, I think getting out in nature, doing things with your hands, accomplishing things, physical things, I'd say is kind of just, it's what humans, or at least guys, men, really I think have an innate desire to do. I mean, I love the forest, that's why I'm not here, but everything that we do, I think, even in the plant-based movement, is about more natural things.

and getting back to nature. So I think guys like to get dirty, boys like to get dirty, right, go out and play. I mean, right behind me is lots of dirt and mud, trails, everything you want, you know? And I think that's what guys, they just have so much fun. I mean, even if you don't do it all the time, just getting back and doing that every so often is what a real man is, I think.

Bryan (04:38.102)

Yeah, thank you, Mike. Brian?

Brian Herskowitz (04:41.502)

Yeah, so I certainly agree with most of what Mike said. And one of the things is you mentioned it's a construct. And my feeling is that every man is a real man. And the idea of what is masculinity, that's from the eye of the beholder. But for me,

It has to do with the things that you were mentioning. Physicality. Are you someone who's you know not afraid of working with their hands, not afraid of getting into not necessarily risk taking, but the idea that you're a physical human being in a physical world. And to me that's masculine. So you know I'm the kind of person that you see on the street and you go you don't automatically go now that's a man. That right there you know that's man. But I'm a fifth degree

I'm a world champion in both judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I consider myself masculine enough. I don't have any issues with that. And for me, actually the things that attracted me to veganism, I was never a big red meat eater, but I had a scare, a physical scare a few years ago in terms of like a heart thing with calcium.

Bryan (05:41.122)

That's right, that's right.

Brian Herskowitz (06:02.396)

What the heck is that about? And I saw this documentary called Game Changers. I'm sure you're all familiar with it. And I went, now these guys, this was a mixed martial artist.

right, who went, wait a minute, the gladiators, probably the most masculine figures in our history were primarily plant-based eaters? What's that about? So he went to research that and I found it fascinating. My brother who is probably, if I'm on a six on the scale of masculinity, he's a nine. He was also a martial artist growing up and we were together and watching, I made him watch it and he went.

I can do this. I can become vegan. He became vegan on the spot. And he was everything but a vegan at that point. So, you know, for me, veganism and masculinity are not mutually exclusive. You know, you don't have to be... you can be masculine and eat plants, you can be masculine and eat meat. That is not a concern, in my opinion. That's just my thoughts on that.

Bryan (06:51.084)


Bryan (06:56.482)


Bryan (07:05.078)

Right. Yeah.

No, I appreciate that. Paul, share some of your wisdom with us.

paul chatlin (07:11.923)


paul chatlin (07:16.516)

You know, 15 years ago, I was a power lifter amongst many other things. And I weighed about 75 pounds more. And there was no question. I was a man. You know, I was lifting many, many men and lifting more than most men. And then heart disease came at my doorstep. I lost 75 pounds. And I must share with you that the way I look at manliness changed greatly. Now, my, my idea of manliness is.

living as an example to everyone that touches my life. So to me, you know, I've got three sons.

I've got some friends and family. They see at my age the health and how my recovery is wonderful. And again, just being that example and showing some compassion. I maybe wasn't always as compassionate many years ago. Now I've got a lot more compassion for many different types of people and people in general. So, you know, I think it changes, but what's most important to me is truly as a man, how you feel about yourself.

So there's no question in my mind of what I do, who I am, where I'm going. So I think that strength is what my depiction of a man should be.

Bryan (08:34.058)

Yeah, I love it. I guess my vision in my head is, I just go back to some stuff my history teacher told me way back in high school was really to think for yourself. Don't follow the rest of the sheep on this planet. Do the research, do the homework, watch the documentaries, read the books, look at the science, all that kind of stuff, and then figure out what your world values are, what your world beliefs are and all that stuff, and then stand by them.

And I think whether, again, like, again, if you want to eat the meat, that's fine. Like, but as long as you've done the homework and the research and you, you feel like your world values back up to that.

belief in some fashion. And then you have to showcase that out to the world. Like I think we've probably all been challenged as plant-based vegan men in some fashion or another that we aren't as much of a man because we don't eat the meat that's tied to this masculine culture, especially in America. So like I just find like we have to figure out what those beliefs are and we have to demonstrate them to the world. Like I, it's interesting. So

I'm going to jump around in my segments a little bit here, but I wanted to sort of put out the fact like I think real men should help around the house with the laundry or the dishes or the kids or whatever else like that. And I think that's something that has shifted over the past hundred years with, with men and our roles as, as fathers and parents for sure. And I put out this video.

on YouTube is just a short video of just saying real men pick up after their kids, real men help with the dishes, real men, let their daughters paint their fingernails because my fingernails were painted at the time. Um, and that video went semi viral, I think seven, 8,000 views, but five, 600 comments because at the end of the video I said real men eat plants. Um, you know, which put out that little bit of controversy out there. Like you had me up until that video, uh, came.

Bryan (10:34.538)

you know, until that last segment came in, right? So I'm just curious, like, how do you guys address some of the stigmas and stereotypes that are out there as part of our diet?

paul chatlin (10:46.747)

Let me, if I could start on this one, because it was interesting as you're unwinding this thing, I was thinking first, when you make the comment of like, you help your wife, you help your kids, you're helping, you know, a real man helps everyone because his goal is to take care of the herd. My job is to protect those family and friends that are close to me, you know, without question. And it's funny because, you know, one of the things I used to grow up thinking all the time was,

If you're not the lead dog, the scenery never changes. So I'm saying I think a real man is willing to, against odds, against opinion, do what's right. That's first and foremost. But lead by example.

Bryan (11:34.51)

I love it. Thank you, Paul. Mike or Brian?

paul chatlin (11:35.34)


Mike Young (11:38.884)

Yeah, well, you were talking about the diet here specifically. Yeah, I mean, I hear comments quite often from, I'd say more, let's say, I don't know, traditional American men, okay, saying that I eat rabbit food. Okay, I hear that.

But the reality is I don't have any non-communicable disease. And kind of like Paul was saying, we need to lead by example. The right thing to do is to enjoy your life, have fun, go out and do whatever you want. And if you're ill, you can't do that. So the right way to lead, the right way to be a real man and to be able to do all the things that you want to do, including taking care of everyone, like was mentioned, other things, is to stay in your best health.

Bryan (12:21.774)

I love it. Well said.

Brian Herskowitz (12:22.703)


kind of along those same lines, the two things that, and it puzzles me that there are people that, I've been at tables and people have been eating steak or whatever, and have some, have a bite. I know you're a vegan, but go ahead. It's like, the idea that somehow you are lesser because makes no sense to me. And the thing that you were talking about, Paul, that part of it is taking care of the herd. And Mike, the idea that you're taking care of your health

take care of the herd. You know, one of the things that is puzzling to me is that, you know, we have a very limited amount of time on this planet. And not just us, but the planet itself. And one of the things that, you know, the question...

You get this pushback from people, and I'm not going to get political, but there are people that go, hey, there is no such thing as a global warming, and it's fake science, meat's better for you, and it's better for your health, and better people get more muscular because they eat meat, and all of those things that aren't necessarily true.

But you sit there and you kind of push against that. And I want to say to people, okay, let's say you and I have these two different perspectives. Let's not look at the planet. Let's just say one is true and one is not true. But let's pretend that yours is not true. What harm is there in taking the path that may potentially improve the planet and improve your own health? And stop the suffering of animals. And you know, clean up the water.

Brian Herskowitz (14:02.708)

help with the pollution and all the other things that are the positives that go with it, I don't understand the resistance and this idea that people get this kind of...

pleasure out of seeing a vegan eat meat. You know, the idea that, you know, if you have some cheese, cheese won't kill you. You know, it's like, I love cheese. I'm not against cheese. But I also want to do what's right for the family, for the planet, and for myself. And the idea that, you know, well, I like meat and I like to have my hamburger and I like that. That's all copacetic. But the truth is, in my opinion, just my opinion, there's

now that you can't replicate with plants. Can I give a plug to a grocery store here called Besties? Okay, so there's a place that's called Besties Vegan Paradise in Los Angeles. It's a grocery store. I'm not associated with them anyway except I shop there. They have no products that are made by any company that also make non-plant products. So everything you... When you walk in the door, everything there is supporting plant

Bryan (14:48.252)

I agree.

Please, please.

Brian Herskowitz (15:14.784)

products. They have a mozzarella cheese that I make I do a homemade pizza from.

that is as good as any mozzarella I've ever had. It's called the cheese and thank you. And so I'm giving that a plug. You know, there's, but, and you know, my daughter has been an ethical vegan since she was two and a half. She's now in her, she's an adult now. I won't give her a hey-do it, but she's an adult now. And she just recently got her degree in animal ethics and law. And so she's very attuned to what animals needs are

Bryan (15:28.386)


Bryan (15:47.67)

That's awesome.

Brian Herskowitz (15:52.684)

and what happens on the planet and everything else. And at two and a half, she was eating a turkey dog and said, what is this? This is really good. And I said, it's turkey. And she said, turkey like the animal turkey? And I said, yeah, never again. Hasn't touched it. And she's the one who has been pushing me for years to go vegan. And then.

Bryan (16:16.13)

Game changers did it. Yeah.

Brian Herskowitz (16:16.394)

As long as I had that healthy, I went, whoa. But getting back to this idea that there's no longer a reason to rip a calf away from its mother and keep that cow pregnant and trapped and destroying her life and their environment and everything else and making that suffer. And if you said to someone, if you could do the same thing without having an animal suffer, would you? And unfortunately, I think there's a big portion of our society that goes, I don't care. Doesn't matter to me. It's not gonna affect my life.

Bryan (16:44.107)


Brian Herskowitz (16:47.069)

I think it's going to affect their lives. It's going to affect all our lives. If we don't start kind of turning it around, that's just... I'll stop preaching it. That's my thought.

Bryan (16:54.846)

No, I mean, I think you're spot on. I mean, I think most people just haven't taken the time to slow down and really look at the amount of fiber they're getting in their diet, the amount of exercise and the what they're putting in their bodies. And to Mike's point, like that's what keeps you alive and healthy and all that stuff. I just had a Kobe from cheese, cheese peas. He makes a plant based cheese that's just phenomenal on pizza as well. So you can check him out in New York.

Brian Herskowitz (17:19.168)

Uh huh.

Bryan (17:23.582)

And then I was hanging out with Shane Martin one time and he like got some big, huge, fluffy lion's mane mushrooms and like smushed them down on the grill and he made like this, this gosh like Philly cheesesteak kind of sandwich out of lion's mane mushrooms and some onions and stuff. And my gosh, that was gone in two seconds. It was so delicious. So I don't know if that recipe's on Shane and Martin's, Shane and Simple's website, but check.

Check that out, but.

paul chatlin (17:54.611)

You know, I want to just, I want to shoot a couple thoughts first. You know, it's funny, you know, men, they love their dogs. They love their dogs. Right? So when I, I'm talking to some of my non-vegan buddies and they're talking about their dog, I say, you know, it's pretty funny. You love your dog, right? Oh yeah. He's the greatest dog in the whole world.

Bryan (18:03.886)


paul chatlin (18:14.531)

I said, would you ever eat your dog? Like really, would you eat him? He goes, what's wrong with you, right? So I always say, well, it's funny, in the world's animal lottery, dogs and cats won, everything else lost. So like it could have been where sheep and goats or something else were man's best friend or horse, right? It turned out to be the dog. So you're not gonna eat your dog, but you have no problem eating some other animal. You're like, I just don't understand that logic of it. And I also think too, when it comes to whole food plant-based,

Mike Young (18:20.929)

I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm

paul chatlin (18:44.485)

which is what I am or veganism. The fact is it's accessibility. I mean, listen, I have to work to feed me, okay? That is part of my life. There's no turning back. I am whole food, plant-based, no oil. So I have to spend a half day every week on prepping for the week. I make it simple on two out of three of the meals, but the other ones, I gotta be a little creative. You're right, there's a million cookbooks, you can find stuff. But saying all that, I have to invest a little time in me

Bryan (18:48.862)


paul chatlin (19:14.565)

food because if I slip up I go looking and when I go looking I'm not eating the way I want to eat and I'm committed to eat that way because I want to be a real man to my family. So yep yep.

Bryan (19:22.83)

That's right.

Mike Young (19:24.139)

Okay. Hey, something I thought about with this discussion is both Brian and Brian, you're bringing us some points about people just not, I don't know, being open. I think a real man is open-minded, right? I mean, a real man is ready to make changes when it becomes apparent that we know how to do something better.

Bryan (19:27.406)

That's right. So true.

Brian Herskowitz (19:41.602)


Mike Young (19:49.362)

And so I think that just follows along with this entire lifestyle. And a real man wouldn't resist something like that because kind of like Paul was saying, you want to look out for everybody. So if you're looking out for everybody and you know how to do something better, you need to go out there and just do it.

Bryan (20:03.978)

Yeah. And I, I think, you know, being open to change, like you, you've changed as you grew up, you changed careers, potentially you changed everything. So like, I think we, as we get older, we get a little bit more stubborn to a degree, but we have to be open to seeing the change in the world and adapting to it. So there you go. There was, so our last podcast episode, there was a couple of comments about

paul chatlin (20:05.184)

Love it.

paul chatlin (20:22.851)

I changed my wife.

Brian Herskowitz (20:26.298)

There you go.

Bryan (20:33.538)

the workplace. And so, uh, I'm going to not say her name correctly, so I apologize. But Shantyanita said, you know, she's really struggling with difficulties informing others about their change to a plant-based lifestyle, especially in the workplace environment. So talk to me about like, what's the real man in the workplace and some of the stigmas we face on a daily basis. Like I'm pretty vocal, like.

Mike Young (20:42.024)

I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to you.

Bryan (20:59.21)

You're inviting me to your conference. I'm vegan. You better have some plant rabbit food for me kind of thing. And I play on the joke of the rabbit food. Like, um, and I did go to a conference last week and there was some amazing vegan options, which was the first time I've seen it, like openly on display, instead of just the one in the corner with my name written on it. Like it's for Brian. Um, but what, what is your thoughts in the workplace that you've seen?

Brian Herskowitz (21:22.786)

Well, I'll jump in there, you know, I'm not a traditional nine to five kind of guy because I'm a filmmaker So I it's pardon me the not exactly a plant based expression, but it's feast or famine I'm either you know, I'm either you know working or I'm not but I teach and I do as I said I teach martial arts, you know that doesn't come up too much except that In every film set there's a craft services table where you know You get to have all your foods

Bryan (21:28.322)


Brian Herskowitz (21:52.7)

is I have noticed over the last probably 10 years there has been a shift and it's rare now that you don't go to a meeting to an organization to a festival or whatever it is where there aren't options that are vegan. It still happens but there is usually something there that they accommodate vegans with and I can tell you for sure 10 years ago I couldn't walk into a grocery store.

and find the plant-based aisle.

And now, you know, even the biggest chain here, you walk in and there is an aisle and it's plant-based. And I think people are becoming more aware. And I think they are starting to wake up to the possibilities and also the risks that we're putting our planet at and ourselves at by eating, you know, animals and animal byproducts. So I think there is kind of this seismic shift. I think it's right now.

2% maybe, but I think we're 2% is significantly more than it was a few years ago. But there are still, there are times I'll go someplace and there are no options. And then you have to be, Paul, like you were saying, you have to start getting creative with, okay, so if I have, what minimize, first of all, is there, if there's absolutely nothing that's plant-based and I'm starting, what can I do? How can I minimize the damage?

Bryan (23:20.46)


Brian Herskowitz (23:25.908)

Maybe there's egg in the pasta, I don't know. Those kind of things you start weighing against what is it that's going to give the least impact to me and to my health and also to the environment and to animals and so forth.

paul chatlin (23:38.626)

A real man could skip a meal.

Bryan (23:42.189)


Brian Herskowitz (23:42.961)

Yeah, that's true. Good point.

Bryan (23:45.822)

And I've done that. I mean, it's funny because I'm in the healthcare space and I go to healthcare conferences where we're talking about healthcare type topics and there's no vegan food and I go across the street to Chipotle to get my vegan Chipotle. Mike, I'm curious what your thoughts are.

Mike Young (23:46.366)

Yeah. Well, all right. I've never had a real job. Always work for myself. Okay. So I look at it from a little different perspective. I mean, I've never had a job. I've never had a job. I've never had

Brian Herskowitz (23:47.244)

I have to act.

Brian Herskowitz (23:59.053)


Mike Young (24:11.186)

I'd say that, you know, I've always had, I guess, the courage, real men have courage, to do my own thing and to do things that maybe are unpopular or that just aren't in line with all the sheep that everyone else. I think that that's what a real man, an attribute of a real man is to just do the right thing regardless of what others are doing. And so in the workplace, I can only imagine for me, I have total freedom because I've always done my own thing, which is, which is awesome. I love that.

But for others, I have worked a job, I remember for two months, I think, I worked for somebody else, I didn't like it, I knew right away. But that requires a different type of courage. It's still a courage, but so much of that peer pressure, there's so much peer pressure, I can only imagine pulling you in one direction, you have to go in the other direction. So that, it requires a lot of self-discipline. I think that's also something that real men possess, strong self-discipline.

Brian Herskowitz (25:05.783)


Bryan (25:06.634)

I love it. I love it. And it's, it's interesting cause like I run the other podcast, Plant Based on Fire, where I interviewed plant based businesses and, and I'm doing some plant based coaching and things like that now. And what I've found in most people that I've asked is that 80% of all the plant based communities out there are women. So.

we're definitely in this minority of 20% or less are the plant-based men and all these communities. Um, except for this podcast, this podcast has 80% men listening to it, which is great. So thank you guys. Appreciate you listening to this podcast, but it is an interesting thing. So I wanted to talk about like, what is, what is a real plant-based man definition for you guys?

Brian Herskowitz (25:42.209)


Mike Young (25:56.6)

Well, Paul and I were discussing this a little bit when we talked the other day. We met up in person and I kind of mentioned, I think you agree with me Paul, is that unfortunately the stereotypical man doesn't take care of himself. Like you're saying mostly women. I think it's because most women tend to take care of themselves better, their own health. And like we alluded to or said out right here in this podcast, you can't.

take care of others if you're not well yourself. So I think a real man is going to do the best he can to take care of himself.

Brian Herskowitz (26:26.938)

Yeah. You know, you also mentioned... Yeah, exactly. You mentioned earlier, you know, the idea that, you know, real men are open-minded. And I think that one of the things that, you know...

Bryan (26:27.126)

I love it. Absolutely. Put your mask on first.

Brian Herskowitz (26:45.458)

a plant-based real man does is he shares that information. And he tries to impart without preaching. So going back a little bit to the idea of the food in the workplace, if I have business meeting and it's up to me to choose a place, I always say, hey, I have this restaurant, this restaurant, this restaurant, always a vegan place. There's a wonderful, my favorite Thai restaurant

restaurant called some named appropriately something vegan. And you know that's it so it's not it's you know and I get people there and they have their meal I say it's you know this is pretty good isn't it you know this is like this and this is vegan you're not you know no animals died you're not you know you're not getting the heens in your blood you're not you know you're getting rid of your inflammation you know this is a good thing right and they're you know I so it doesn't necessarily

Bryan (27:16.846)

I love it.

paul chatlin (27:17.271)


Brian Herskowitz (27:45.252)

change people's minds but it opens them up to the possibilities. And I think that a lot of times that's one of the things you have to do is you have to kind of not necessarily shove people, just kind of point them toward the light a little bit and say look here's another way you can go.

You don't have to... I have kind of a mixed feeling about Bestie's idea of only food that is made in a facility that has no connection to anything plant-based because when somebody like Kraft now makes plant-based cheeses...

Bryan (28:00.684)


Brian Herskowitz (28:21.71)

Suddenly that makes that a and Paul you were mentioning this access it gives something gives that person who walks into a grocery store and looks up and says oh Craft the number one name and cheese does a plant-based cheese that must be okay Let me try that and suddenly you've got somebody else who's looking at the possibilities so I think that a real man kind of opens up the world of possibilities to people for change for the better

Bryan (28:37.586)


Bryan (28:48.694)

Yep, absolutely well said.

paul chatlin (28:52.007)

Yeah, I would just add my idea is that I don't make excuses. I don't look for some bailout from somebody. If I'm going into a situation that's new to me, be it a speaking event or wherever it may be, whatever the venue is, I own it from its inception. Meaning if I agreed to be at a certain place, I don't ask somebody to make sure I got food.

I always have a care package in my car if I need it with enough food that gets me through if I'm starving, which I never am. Or I call the restaurant. I talk to the guy. I own that situation because I don't want to sit there being sad and moping because everyone's eating burgers or whatever and I'm sitting there just drinking my water. And if I do drink my water, I don't give a shit. You know what I'm saying? I'll get through it. I will live. Okay?

not take it over. I used to be out pushing people plant-based, but now I'm my own advertisement. You know, at 66 years old, you know, I bike ride every day. A lot. More lift weight. I live in my best life. Mike, I totally agree. My goal, be healthy. My goal, be an example. I do those two things. Real man. Real man. That's it.

Bryan (30:13.398)

Yep. Absolutely. So what, let let's take this one step further because I am still struggling to find other real men who eat plants that want to come on this podcast and hang out with all of us. So let's put this as a call to action for all the real men out there. Come, comment on this post, come chat with us and come be on the show and let's put the word out there. I really appreciate all three of you coming in and telling some stories and anecdotes about your experiences and stuff, but what

What role do you believe men have as real men who eat plants in our plant-based movement? Like we're still a minority overall. And I see that changing, but what role or examples do you see us needing to set?

Brian Herskowitz (30:57.467)

Well, I'll throw one out real quick to you. This is going back to this idea of the few restaurants that I go to, and one is called Hard House. And Hard House is a fast food.

a vegan burger place that was founded by Kevin Hart, the actor. And somebody with that kind of visibility, when they say, I'm starting a restaurant chain and it's all vegan, that's a great poster child for the vegan movement. When you see people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, who is very pro plant-based, Jackie Chan, these are people that have high visibility.

Bryan (31:14.219)


Bryan (31:27.054)


Brian Herskowitz (31:39.14)

people like that to kind of, you know, turn people around because that's, you know, we are led by our nose and we're led by society and we're led by the people that we admire and I think the more that we see those people in a position saying, hey I've looked at the science or I've decided for me it's the best way to live.

Mike Young (31:44.429)

Thank you.

Brian Herskowitz (31:59.638)

that there are people that will go, you know, there must be something there. There must be something to it. So now I would love to see Kevin come on your show. He'd be, yeah. So anybody out there that knows Kevin, you know, have him, have him, have him give Brian a call, would you?

Bryan (32:07.606)

Absolutely, I mean he can be our spokesperson. Let's do it.

Bryan (32:16.898)

That's right. I would love to partner with him and I'd love to get out there and hang out with you and try one of those burgers out there. We've got, we're close, we're close to it. We're close to the slutty vegan in Atlanta, which is, which is my favorite one. So, but yeah, there's, there's some great choices out there. Other thoughts on how we can set an example and help more men get into the plant-based movement and.

Brian Herskowitz (32:23.214)

They're good. They're really good. I had one Wednesday night.

Mike Young (32:42.423)

Well, just, just like you said, I think setting an example, going out there and Paul, like

your 60s. I mean, I'm in my 50s. I mean, just keep going, you know, I'm

Bryan (32:58.314)

I love it. You cut out a little bit there, Mike. So say that one more time.

paul chatlin (33:01.864)

Yeah, a real man can read lips. Go ahead, Mike.

Brian Herskowitz (33:04.398)

Yeah I thought it was just me. I thought my hearing went out suddenly.

paul chatlin (33:19.786)


Mike Young (33:22.834)

I've been.

Bryan (33:27.642)

Hopefully that comes through on the recording when it uploads on that front, Mike. Sorry, you're cutting in and out a little bit. I guess what other what other real men, you know, what is a real man topic? Should we should we unpack if there's anything that's I've jogged in your head as we've been talking through it? Otherwise, I got one more big question for us.

paul chatlin (33:49.483)

What's your big question?

Brian Herskowitz (33:50.914)

Yeah, let's go there.

Bryan (33:53.49)

The call to action really. So, you know, summarize, summarize it one more time from each of your perspectives for me here. What is, uh, you know, what is a real man in your opinion now that we've unpacked it a little bit and what is the call to action for all the people that have made it this far in the podcast to, to do and take away, um, as their next steps, uh, to help us in the movement or dig deeper into plant-based life, all that kind of stuff.

Brian Herskowitz (34:23.032)


I'll start. For me, again, a real man is somebody who has ownership of their own physicality, is somebody that is proactive. I think Paul's a great example of someone, the idea that if you're going to go some place where they don't have your food, you bring it. I think that's a great tip. I think it's proactive. I think it's masculine. I think it's something that says, I'm in control of me. And I think that's a great thing.

a teacher, you know, so the idea of passing torches along to people, to passing knowledge along to people goes across the board, including the idea of, you know, just giving, opening people's eyes to the possibility. And the thing that I want in part to the people that are right now not plant-based is there are options for you that are going to help you and the environment and the world.

Mike Young (34:55.792)

So, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. So, I'm going to start with the presentation of the first item, the

Brian Herskowitz (35:20.482)

Why don't you take a look? Why don't you try it and see if there isn't something where you go, you know what, two days a week, let me start with that. Let me start with a, let me start a little bit. You know, if we can just get people to start, you know, going, I don't have to have steak every Friday, you know, or I don't have to have meat every day, or I don't have to have dairy every day, or you know, if we can start kind of just bringing down the margins a little bit,

Mike Young (35:45.563)

So, I'm going to go ahead and start the presentation. So, I'm going to start with the presentation.

Brian Herskowitz (35:50.736)

Hopefully that'll start to snowball and there will be people that go you know what? You know cheese and thank you makes a fantastic one. It's really I don't need another mozzarella I can I can do that. I don't need to have you know cow's milk oat milk almond milk

soy milk is fine or whatever it is that they start to go. There are other options out there that are as good, that are better for me, better for the world and have given me just as much pleasure. And that's one of the things that have been missing in my opinion 15, 20 years ago in the vegan movement is you wanted to go eat vegan, you really did feel like kind of you were in the hippie world. Yeah. You weren't. I don't know.

Bryan (36:29.798)

AID at home.

Brian Herskowitz (36:36.812)

But because the people that I knew that were vegans were very masculine But the idea that you know, I want to enjoy the food. I want to enjoy that process I want to enjoy the taste and there's that now there's There's so many options and so and whether even if you're making your own food now You know, I make my own pizza dough from scratch

It's a vegan pizza, it's fantastic. You know, I love it, it's fantastic. So there are things that you can do that you couldn't do 10 years ago in terms of, there weren't fast food vegan burger places 10 years ago. You know, there just weren't. Now there are. Now there are vegan restaurants, there are vegan options. You can go to your grocery store and go to the plant-based aisle. And you couldn't do that 10 years ago. So there's options to people. And just trying to open their eyes

Bryan (37:00.108)

I love it.

Bryan (37:10.659)

That's right.

Brian Herskowitz (37:28.072)

side. And there is no downside with the possible exception of oh I'm used to or I like that or I miss that. But get over it. Get over it for your family. Get over it for the world and get over it for yourself.

Bryan (37:29.294)


Bryan (37:43.426)

Thank you, Brian. Appreciate that. Call to action, guys. What's your thoughts?

Mike Young (37:46.883)

All right, well, hopefully my signal is good here out in the woods. Hear me. I say just keep learning. Real men keep learning, right? So I think that everyone you associate with, hopefully they are people that want to keep learning and doing new things. And

Even if they're not, if they see that you're doing something new, like I am always improving. I don't just, I didn't just get into the plant-based movement and I'm set. I'm always learning, always something new, getting better. Thanks, bye.

better for everybody. Better. So I guess that's the point. There's a lot of people think their health is important, but I'd say not necessarily

Bryan (38:48.002)

I love it. Thank you, Mike. Paul, what's your thoughts?

Mike Young (38:50.693)

You're welcome.

paul chatlin (38:50.757)


Um, I don't take shit. I'm responsible for my stuff. Okay. I think of my family first and I work and I work a lot. So my point here is, you know, just like I said, be a beacon of an example to those that you care about the ones that you don't know and just keep moving forward.

And don't relive the past, it's already gone. Learn from it.

Bryan (39:24.29)

I love it. I love it. Well, I really appreciate it. Again, you guys coming together and helped me unpack this important topic. I think this is going to be a recurring episode that we do every once in a while, just to unpack some new angles based on some comments and stuff. So please comment on this video and let us know what else we should talk about in future episodes. But let's have each of you, please go around the horn, give us a shout out. Where can we get in touch with you? How can we help promote you guys a little bit here? So

Paul, why don't you hit us with your thoughts.

paul chatlin (39:54.635)

All right. All right, so you can reach me, Paul, at the letters P as in Paul, B as in Boy, N as in Nancy, S as in Sam, G as in Paul at You will also soon be able to reach me with the Sage Circle Alliance. You're going to hear a lot about us very, very soon. Last little thought. Listen, if you're stuck in your meaty ways, that's cool. I don't care. OK?

But why don't for a real man is willing to take a challenge. So here's my challenge. You go whole food plant based. If even if you need the oil, do it without oil if you're a real man, that's what I say. But if you can't, then try it for 60 days. You could do anything for 60 days, anything. Pretend your family is, something could happen to them if you break that 60 day. But you go ahead, get a lipid panel at the beginning, make sure you talk to your doctor.

And even if your doctor says well, I'm not sure about it. No you tell your doctor I'm going whole food plant-based or vegan for 60 days. I want a lipid panel. You tell him what you want He does a lipid panel. Then you go 60 days. No meat. No dairy. Try no oil real man and Then get your lipid panel done again. Here's what's gonna happen 60 days You'll lose 15 pounds all your numbers will drop by amounts that you quit cannot believe then you'll have

paul chatlin (41:23.353)

and now you'll become a real man.

Bryan (41:26.166)

I think that's a great commercial for the Real Men Eat Plants 30 Day Challenge. Go sign up on our website. You'll take our 30 day challenge. We'll guide you through the process there. But I appreciate that, Paul. And we do have the Real Men Eat Plants support group with PBNSG. So come check that out once a month as well. And you can hang out with all of us and ask us questions and we'll help guide you on that journey too. But Mike, if your audio is working good, hit us with your contact and how we can get in touch with you.

Mike Young (41:56.018)

Yeah, yeah.

paul chatlin (42:01.052)

Thank you Mike.

Bryan (42:02.306)


Mike Young (42:02.727)

A plant-based diet, and I guess what? I have the manual, guys love to read manuals, right? One gender that reads manuals is guys. Have it called 250, book, free, and like, you know what?

paul chatlin (42:19.619)

Thank you, Mike.

paul chatlin (42:24.183)

Bro, we're gonna put you in an office, sorry.

Mike Young (42:24.559)

That's it.

Brian Herskowitz (42:27.071)


Bryan (42:27.118)

Thank you. Thank you, Mike. I think we, I think we got it. We're going to check out the plant based diet and get your book and check that out. And we appreciate you putting the manual together for the real men out there. Brian, tell us how we can help you and how we can get in touch.

Brian Herskowitz (42:43.878)

You can find me on and there's contact on that website. I also would, if you're interested in animal welfare and interested in animal science at all, particularly how it impacts the world, check out Mad About Animal Mags on YouTube. There's a YouTube channel. That's my daughter's channel. And her latest one is Should We Kill John Wick's Dog?

Bryan (43:10.094)


Brian Herskowitz (43:13.872)

she analyzes from the ethical perspective and different ethical perspectives of whether or not it is the right thing to do to kill John Wick's dog and why shouldn't we kill John Wick's dog and it also relates back to everything from you know

Industrial farming and you know how torturous that is for animals It's a but with humor and charm and it's really beautifully done So if you get a chance if you just if you want a grin and you have you know a soft spot for animals and for Veganism it's a great. It's a great YouTube channel to check out And and the other thing I my other daughter has a comedy group called nope. That's a toe which is also on YouTube you should check out and

Bryan (43:59.862)

Very cool.

Brian Herskowitz (44:00.95)

But yeah, for me, if you're interested, I do have a novel out called Conceptus, where I do have a character who's vegan. Not the main character, but her girlfriend. And it's a murder mystery, if you guys like murder mysteries. And please check that out. Conceptus, you can get it on Amazon. Other than that, I'm around. Check me out.

Bryan (44:21.782)

That is awesome. Thank you, Brian Herskowitz. Check out his website. Check out his daughter's couple of things. I think that's a great angle. John wicks dog. John wick is obviously a big buzzword. So hopefully that does well for her, but thank you guys all for joining us. We'll be back. We're trying to get out two or three episodes a month of the real many plants podcasts. So if you're interested in joining us, if you've got a great topic idea,

Brian Herskowitz (44:35.778)


Bryan (44:47.65)

please reach out to us. We are here to help you on your plant-based journey, and we wanna support you and help the community grow. So thanks again, everybody. Appreciate your time, and I hope you guys have a great day.



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