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Unlocking Nitric Oxide: Geoff Palmer's Insights on Plant-Based Health


Welcome back to The Glen Merzer Show, where we explore the realms of veganism, climate change, and the transformative effects of a plant-based lifestyle. In our latest episode, we had the pleasure of hosting Geoff Palmer, the visionary CEO of Clean Machine. Geoff and Glen delved into the fascinating world of nitric oxide, unraveling its significance in promoting health and longevity.

The Nitric Oxide Revelation:

Nitric oxide, a powerhouse molecule, holds the key to various bodily functions. Geoff, shed light on its importance in vasodilation—our body's ability to open blood vessels for improved blood flow. As Geoff and Glen discussed, maintaining optimal blood pressure is crucial for overall health, and a whole food vegan diet emerges as a frontrunner in achieving this. 

Geoff highlighted the role of nitric oxide in countering high blood pressure, emphasizing the benefits of a diet rich in dark greens, celery, beets, watercress, spinach, and cabbage. The conversation took an intriguing turn as they explored the four major pathways to nitric oxide generation, with Geoff stressing the significance of the nitrate pathway found in plant-based foods.

The Nitrate Pathway:

Geoff explained how nitrates in foods like dark greens undergo a transformation process, converting into nitric oxide in our stomachs. This process not only facilitates vasodilation but also plays a vital role in creating a protective mucosal layer, guarding against stomach acid and potential ulcers. The revelation that nitric oxide production is a natural byproduct of consuming plant-based foods emphasizes the importance of maintaining a diet abundant in these nutrients.

A Cautionary Tale on Nitrates in Meat:

The discussion took a critical turn as Geoff cautioned against nitrates found in meat, revealing their artificial addition as a chemical preservative. He highlighted the absence of protective elements like polyphenols and vitamin C in meat, making it prone to forming nitrosamine compounds—known stimulators of cancer growth. This insight serves as a stark reminder of the inherent benefits in obtaining nitrates from whole plant foods, ensuring both the molecule's effectiveness and its cancer-protective properties.

You can watch the entire episode here to learn about nitric oxide. Join us on The Glen Merzer Show as we continue our journey, laughing and inspiring others to make the switch to the green side.

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DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Geoff Palmer On Nitric Oxide and When Supplements are Needed

Podcast Transcript:

Glen Merzer Welcome to the Glen Merzer Show. You could find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You can find us on YouTube, and please remember to subscribe and you could find us at Real Men Eat My guest today is my friend and a regular guest on this show, Mr. Geoff Palmer, who is the CEO of Clean Machine Online. You could find it a clean machine It's a company that makes vegan supplements for for health and longevity. Geoff, welcome to the show. 

Geoff Palmer Hey, thanks for having me back. Oh, it's good to talk with you. 

Glen Merzer Geoff, the subject today is nitric oxide. Yes. And this is a very, very powerful molecule, very important to all kinds of functions in the human body. And let's see if you know, what year was it voted. The molecule of the year in 1992. Absolutely true. The molecule of the year. And who gives that award anyway? Molecule of the year. 

Geoff Palmer God, I think that's actually time magazine. But but it was in the scientific, community. It was interesting. The the molecule was actually first identified way back in the early 80s. Surprising that it actually took that long to identify it. They were looking at vasodilation. That's like our body's ability to open up the blood vessels, so that more blood can flow. And and obviously, that's an important piece because, hypertension, or high blood pressure is the number one most frequent disease state of human beings on the planet. 

Glen Merzer Right. And it is the disease state that I think makes the best case for the Whole Foods plant based vegan diet. Because there is no evidence that contradicts, the the evidence that has been presented. Who knows how many times that the lowest, most healthfully low blood pressure is on a whole foods vegan diet. Second place vegetarian diet. Third place, the omnivore diet. We just know it as a fact. I've never even heard it disputed. So my question would be. What would be the advantage of having high blood pressure? How could anyone make a case for a diet that causes high blood pressure? I don't think you've got an answer to that one. 

Geoff Palmer Do you want some high blood pressure? Is is necessary. Actually, when you get nervous, your blood vessels constrict. Yeah. And, that's a healthy process. That's. But it should be temporary. Right. What we don't want is it's staying, very tight, because. 

Glen Merzer There's no good case for high blood pressure as your basic state. 

Geoff Palmer Correct. Exactly. Actually, though, generally the low blood pressure and obviously there's too low blood pressure, but generally the lower end of the blood pressure ranges is indicative of better health. You see that? What do they call it? Runners, blood pressure. Because runners do a lot of exercise, which causes a lot of vasodilation. That's the stretching of it. Stretch it out to dilate and then it relaxes and you stretch it out. And then if you're nervous it constricts. So you want some good movement or elasticity in there. Now when the arteries get clogged, that's when, you with cholesterol and saturated fat. That's when you have the stiffening of the arteries. Which great new study just out last year showed that vegan men have much less, stiffening of the arteries than omnivore men. And there's really no debate there. And part of that reason is because how we produce nitric oxide. So there's actually four different ways that our body does this. And and it's so important molecule that our body has multiple ways of of creating it. So in case one pathway is not there that's all right. We got back up ways. 

Glen Merzer And absolutely before you go into the four pathways, let me just make a disclaimer that neither Geoff or I are doctors. And we are speaking from our own knowledge, our own research. We're not claiming to be medical professionals. And you are advised to speak to your medical professional and you're advised to, you know, make sure your medical professional is a vegan. That's just my personal advice. All right. So, Geoff, there are four pathways to nitric oxide generation in the body. Tell us about. 

Geoff Palmer Four major pathways that I talk about. So the very first one is the nitrate nitrate nitric oxide pathway. So it starts out as nitrate which is what you get in food like dark greens and celery and beets watercress, spinach, cabbage most of the greens is where we get most of our nitrates from. So nitrates then mix with saliva and bacteria on our tongue and they turn it into nitrate. And from nitrate to nitrate. Then that nitrate goes to our stomach where it can either mix with plant polyphenols or gastric juices. And the bacteria there can then convert it to nitric oxide. Now, why the stomach? Because nitric oxide initiates the process of mucus. In this case, it's a good mucus. It's protective mucus layer that blocks acid from, you know, hole in our stomach, our stomachs full of acid. You don't want the acid to destroy the tissues in the stomach, which we call an ulcer. You don't like that. So you have to have this protective mucosal layer there. Now, acid will eventually sloughed that layer off. So we have to keep replenishing it. So this is really important why we should keep eating these dark green vegetables and leafy green vegetables so that we can get the nitrates and keep replenishing and refill, refurbishing our protective mucosa in our stomach to protect it so that nitric oxide plays a very primary role in that very beginning process. And that's before it even gets in the bloodstream and does all kinds of good stuff. And so that is called the nitrate pathway. So that's where we get it from food. Now some nitrates can be formed as a chemical in the laboratory and then added to meats. But you can here nitrate meat. And that's to keep the meat from rotting because nitric oxide kills bacteria and kills viruses, which is a good thing. And part of the reason of how we use it in our body. So scientists figure that out and said, well, let's just make chemical versions of it and throw it on the meat to preserve the meat and prevent it from rotting. So it keeps in a nice pink color. Otherwise your meat would all brown because it oxidizes and starts rotting pretty immediately. That's how they help keep it nice and pink looking by putting these nitrates. Now, the problem here is. When it's packaged in wholefood plants, it comes with polyphenols and generally some vitamin C that help prevent that nitrate from forming what's called nitrosamine compounds in the digestive tract. But when you isolate and make it in a chemical laboratory and put it on the meat and then people eat it, there's no vitamin C and animal products rarely or very little not enough to cover that. And there's no polyphenols because polyphenols only come from plants. So the two protective things that are naturally in the food that come coupled with that nitrate and protect it from ever turning into nitrosamine isn't there when it's on an animal food. So if you're getting your nitrates from animal food one, it's been artificially placed there as a chemical. And two, it doesn't have the chemo protective effects that are found in the whole plant foods. So they find that nitrosamines actually stimulate cancer growth, right. So you don't want the nitrates and meat. So nitrates in meat bad nitrates in plants. Awesome. 

All right. 

Glen Merzer So that's we're still dealing with that first pathway though. 

Geoff Palmer That is the first pathway. So, also in supplementation, if you find nitrates and supplements, which I don't agree with, make sure it has some vitamin C in it. Or you could actually be forming cancer causing compounds in your body. That's why would not take the nitrate path unless it's in a whole plant food of course. All right then. Two thumbs up. 

Glen Merzer Right. And even if it is accompanied by vitamin C and a supplement, we don't know if that affects the same way as. 

Geoff Palmer Insufficient amounts or whatever. The plants take the guesswork out of it. They put together in the exact right amounts for us. Yeah. Okay, so the second pathway is a couple of amino acids and it's called the citrulline arginine no synthase pathway. So it goes in. You can take arginine or citrulline and put it into the human body. Arginine and citrulline are both amino acids found in plants. Arginine builds proteins, but citrulline does not. It's used for other things. Now Citrulline converts to arginine in the body. And then, nitric oxide synthase, which is the enzyme will turn that into nitric oxide. So this type of nitric oxide goes can go right into the bloodstream where it's used for endothelial function. The endothelium is the lining around our, blood vessels and arteries and veins. So this is what helps stimulate the dilation or vasodilation, the veins, getting larger and relaxing, but it also helps smooth muscle relax, too. So important for our heart. So this is called illness or endothelial little E endothelial, which is for our blood vessels endothelial nitric oxide and the essence for the synthase because it requires an enzyme to do the conversion rather than bacteria in our mouth. Well, there's one other way we could do it. There's two other ways, but the next way is through our nose inhaling it. 


Geoff Palmer So we can breathe in. And the back and forth movement of breathing through your nose actually creates nitric oxide. Now, why would the body want to do that? Or what is the first and primary entry point for bacteria and viruses. And that's you know it. That's where it comes in that we bring to that. That's where the coronaviruses generally get in either our mouth or eyes or our nose, but generally our nose because we're breathing through our nose most of the time. So, we have a defense mechanism because nitric oxide can destroy viruses and bacteria and other pathogens. So it's right there at the entry point. How cool is. 


Geoff Palmer We're creating the exact chemical. We need to defeat them right at the point of entry. And of course, when we eat plant foods, we're creating nitrates in our gut. All those nitric nitric oxide in the gut then can kill the bacteria that our gut. Now, carnivorous animals don't do this as well because they're not eating plants. So they're not getting the nitrates right. That's why they have a really high acid content. And their stomach burn a hole right through our stomach if we had at that high and that's so it will kill the bacteria on rotting carcasses. That's why humans are clearly from our acid, low acid stomachs and high nitric oxide stomachs. We're clearly more herbivores. We eat plants. That helps us get the nitric oxide, and we breathe the right notes. So that helps us get the nitric oxide in the two points of entry, our mouth and our nose of all the bacteria and viruses. And that's because we don't need that high acid, because we shouldn't be eating rotting animal flesh to begin with. 

Glen Merzer Now if we want more nitric oxide through this pathway? 

Geoff Palmer Yes. 

Glen Merzer Does that just mean deep breathing? 

Geoff Palmer That's where exercise comes in when you're exercising. What do you usually do? You have to breathe more, right. Because you're taking in oxygen in order to feed, your body the oxygen it needs because you're using exercise. So in that process, that's why people who exercise, especially runners, generally don't get as sick as often because they have much higher nitric oxide, nasal nitric oxide. But here's a little cool trick, and I'm really not sure why this is the way it is, but humming Hmhm humming can increase the nasal, nitric oxide 15 to 20 times. 

Glen Merzer You're kidding me. 


Geoff Palmer Now, animals do this. Chickens and cats actually purr. And this may be one of the mechanisms that they're also using in this vibratory experience to stimulate the, production of nitric oxide. 

Glen Merzer Why would humming increase your nitric oxide? 

Geoff Palmer So it may be a response to the vibrational state. Because when you have activity, viruses or bacteria or pathogens, it's going to cause vibration. So creating that vibration may get the body to say, oh, there may be a pathogen there. Create more nitric oxide. That's just my best guess. 

Glen Merzer Wow. So either you can go on a Whole foods low fat vegan diet and exercise all the time and sleep well. Or you could just hum a lot. 

Yeah, well. 

Geoff Palmer That's that's part of the thing. But definitely you want dietary input. So you're getting it from the plants right. But there's another dietary path. 

Glen Merzer Well and what is that. 

Geoff Palmer And here's the final one. And the one I saved the best for last. The problem with nitrates is that they could form nitrosamines. Not in whole food plants. But if you get them in some other form, like animals or supplements, they can form cancer causing compounds. Don't want that. The problem with arginine is that some people have herpes arginine feeds herpes simplex. So you taking a high amount of arginine can actually cause herpes outbreaks. So there are many people that actually have to stay or reduce or keep in check their amount of arginine. So the arginine pathway is not always the best either. Now if you're getting it on Whole Foods, you're probably not worried about it. Most of that is just not real. High protein foods like soy is one of the highest, and arginine there is generally a good thing if you don't have problems with herpes. But if you do, that's probably one to stay away from. So both the nitrate and the citrulline pathways have some pluses and minuses to them. And nasal breathing. Well how many people are going to go wrong. Probably not, you know. And if you're not exercising regularly, that's not working for you. And walking around the office place humming, people might think you're a little. 

Speaker 3 Yeah. 

Geoff Palmer But the last one I love the most and is because one, it supports our own bodies production. I love that it doesn't require intake of arginine or nitrates. It just requires that you eat plants that are rich in colors. Polyphenols. The higher the polyphenol content, the higher the nitric oxide production. So it's twofold. Not only does it is it in the process, does it help the body create its own nitric oxide better. But it also helps bind to it and protect it. Nitric oxide is a very volatile molecule. It's very active. Now that's a good thing and can be a not a good thing. It's a free radical because it's an a singular oxygen. Remember it's got a nitrogen and a single oxygen bound to it. So it can actually be an oxidative. And usually we want antioxidants. Well, guess what polyphenols are. They're one of the most powerful antioxidants there. So they can protect that from being damaging. But they can also keep the path life of it. Now our body, as soon as it starts making nitric oxide, it wants to destroy it right away and get it out of the system quickly so that free radical doesn't damage anything. So as a very short cycle, like about three seconds. 


Geoff Palmer Very short. 

Glen Merzer That is short. 

Geoff Palmer Yes. So, the body though has a way in saying, well, wait a minute. If we've got an antioxidant protecting it there, it can hang out longer and then you can reuse it and reuse it. And so it's extending both the time and the amount and the efficacy of the nitric oxide. So polyphenols do double duty increases the nitrogen oxide production but also helps protect it so it lasts longer in the body. So you get even more of the beneficial effects without the negative effects, allows supports the body to do its best thing, and then protects it so that your body can do the right thing for longer and better. Now, polyphenols only come from plants. There are zero polyphenols in any animal product. Eggs. No. Dairy. No. Meat. Fish. Chicken? No. None and any animal product only made by plants. And the darker and richer the color of the plant, the higher the polyphenol. There's a whole boatload of different polyphenols from fluorides in an apple skin to 5 to 10, and strawberries to SGC and green tea to cocoa flavanols. And and I mean the chlorogenic acid in coffee. They're all over the place. The plant kingdom makes literally thousands. There's been over 8000 polyphenols identified already that have their own unique health benefits, but they almost all contribute to the, production of nitric oxide. So there you have it. The benefits of nitric oxide are in immune health and neuro protection in. Smooth muscle relaxation. To to blood vessels and preventing hypertension. It's even implicated in diabetes, too. So the health benefits are across the board. And then you add on to it that these rich polyphenols in plants, brightly colored and dark colored plants are doing some amazing health benefits on their own, as well as contributing to the nitric oxide. It's a beautiful marriage and it all comes from plants only plants. 

Glen Merzer Nitric oxide has so many roles in the human body that it's remarkable that it wasn't discovered or realized to have these benefits until just a few decades ago, right? 

Geoff Palmer Partly because one, it's a gas, so it's not seen. And the two, it's it's short lifespan, remember just couple of seconds. So you got to be there when it's happening. So, taking a look at tissues, it's even kind of hard to do it. So it's, it was actually, when they were studying what caused the vasodilation? Did they really dig into it and then find in the endothelium some endothelium, the actual release of this gas. And then they recorded it. So yeah, it it's surprising that something so important to so many attributes of our health, is was overlooked for so long. But it's understandable because it doesn't doesn't last. It doesn't hang around. 

Glen Merzer Right. Now, forgive me as I go on a little rant here, but, in preparation for our talk, I read this book that had been on my shelf called The Nitric Oxide Solution. By Doctor Nathan S Brian and Janet Zand. And it's it's not a bad book. I learned a lot from reading it, and it's well-written, so I wanted to endorse it here and recommend it to the listeners. And I will, but with a caveat. The book has recipes. Let me tell you some of the recipes. Now, after they describe accurately what causes heart disease and talk about the role of an O. O preventing heart disease. They have a recipe for luscious arugula and dill frittatas, which contains three tablespoons of butter or olive oil, six eggs, a half cup of whipping cream, and three quarters of a cup of grated parmesan cheese. Now, there wasn't one sentence in here about how whipping cream creates nitric oxide. I don't think it does. Go grated parmesan cheese for the butter. So why would they write a book and put it about them? This miracle molecule. That can save you from all kinds of debilitating conditions. And then put in recipes. This sounds good. Vibrant tarragon and beet soup and beets are excellent for generating nitric oxide. 

Geoff Palmer The beet greens are even higher than the beets themselves. 

Glen Merzer Yeah, but not if you have it with a half cup of heavy cream or tablespoons of sour cream. One and a half tablespoons of butter. Then they've got crunchy and dive and blue cheese salad in the endive is good. The blue cheese is bad. One and a half cups of blue cheese. And then there's butter lettuce cups with curried chicken salad which has one half pounds of boneless, skinless chicken thighs. So the question is are chicken thighs very helpful for generating nitric oxide? 

Geoff Palmer You know, when people say cholesterol they think of red meat. And most people aren't aware that chicken per gram has the exact same amount of cholesterol as red meat. 


Geoff Palmer It's an animal. They make cholesterol. They do it just like we do for their own purposes. When you take that LDL cholesterol that is made by us, by all animals, and you heat it or oxidize it, it becomes oxidized LDL, which is sticky and sticks to the end of the lining of our arteries, causing plaques. And nothing could be more clear in the scientific literature. Back in 1908, it was discovered that cholesterol oxidized cholesterol causes atherosclerosis, the number one cause of death of human beings on this planet. 50% of Americans will die from atherosclerosis. Atherosclerosis in the brain is Alzheimer's dementia. You know, strokes, Alzheimer's to the heart is heart attack or cardiovascular disease, coronary heart disease, in the blood vessels, it's hypertension or high blood pressure. And to the genitals it's erectile dysfunction. I mean, it's just nasty, artery clogging stuff. Hey, you don't pour grease down the drain. Why? Because it clogs up the drain. Well, if you're smart enough to do that, why are you putting the grease in your mouth? 

Glen Merzer It's not the. 

Geoff Palmer Same. 

Glen Merzer So these authors have got to be smart people. You know, they're able to write a book. 

Geoff Palmer Educated. I wouldn't say smart. 

Glen Merzer They're able to write a book that describes, I think, accurately, the functions of nitric oxide. And, and they're making the case that these functions will, will protect your heart, protect your arteries, and then they ask you to eat food that will do the exact opposite. And the only you know, I try to explain how people could be so foolish. And the only thing and the only explanation I could come up with is they just make assumptions. The assumption is this is food. The chicken thighs, you know. Blue cheese. This is what food is. So we have to eat food, and then we'll add some beets for the nitric oxide. But this isn't what food is. You're making an assumption. It's like on climate change when you have all the leading climate change scientists. Look at the problem and they just don't question animal agriculture. They just assume we must turn over 40% of the earth to cows and sheep. And so if you don't question that, well then yeah, you're left to talking about fuel economy and in cars, you know. But if you question it, if you have an open mind and you say, wait a minute, do we really have to have 1.5 billion cows on the earth? Then you get to the root cause of climate change. So, you know, the foolishness of just accepting that the foods that kill us have to be eaten. You know, it's it's just mind boggling. Now, you've been a guest on, on my show a number of times, and we have never spoken, about any of your individual supplements. You've never asked to speak about them. And, you know, you're not here to hawk your products. You're here to share your knowledge. But I want to mention this product that you have. And I have no financial interest in this, but this is your product, for generating nitric oxide. So tell us it's called intense. So tell us about how you formulated this and why you believe that this product, is is, is a good way to to boost your nitric oxide. 

Geoff Palmer Yeah. Intense is for, people who exercise, or into fitness. And it can be anything from, a game of basketball, swimming, biking, running or working out in the gym, doing Pilates, whatever. So, you know, when I look at pre-workout, products, many of them were using nitrates or arginine, which we just talked about. Some of the reasons why not to use synthetic nitrates, because of the potential for cancer causing molecules. Why not to use arginine? Because of, people that, may have issues with it for herpes. So. When I was looking for something to boost nitric oxide because it is shown to help improve performance for athletes. Okay. So why is that important? So when you, when you exercise, your body tries to open up your blood vessels and why. So that you can get more nutrients and oxygen to your muscles so that when you're working them, they can keep up with the work. Right. That's the endurance part of it and the strength part of it, but also so that blood flow can move the waste particles. Because just like an engine, when you're using it, you create exhaust, you create waste particles from using the engine of your muscles. So you want to move that waste away from the muscle tissue too as well. Otherwise, if it stays around there like lactic acid, you'll get lactic acid burn that burning sensation from working out really hard, or you'll get a lot more muscle soreness because those waste products actually, lodged in the muscle. So start doing some muscle damage. So you don't want that. So it helps with recovery. It helps with endurance. It helps in overall health too as well. So for those with fitness goals in mind, the reason I, reached out for this one is because I found this amazing approach. Remember I said polyphenols is the my favorite approach one, it's supportive to the body to produce it's own. And two, it's protective of the nitric oxide. So you get more out of the nitric oxide that your body does produce. I found this product called S7, which is seven different, non-GMO plants, things like turmeric for the curcumin on it. Broccoli, cherries, that are shown to have very nice, recovery effects. So all these really intensely colored, high polyphenol rich, foods, and they used it, they tested it and a human study, and they found that human subjects increased their nitric oxide by 230% on a single 50mg dose. That's how powerful these polyphenols in plants are. And when you package a bunch of them together, like eating a big salad with lots of different things in it, you're going to get, all of the different benefits or a smoothie with lots of different berries and spices in it. Then you're really boosting up that nitric oxide level. But I wanted to do this a quick and simple way that something people could put in a, shaker instead of eating a bowl, full cherries, some arugula salad. And just before going to work out this, you just throw in some water and you can get all those benefits of all those plants, those high polyphenol content, and a quick boost to help your body get into healing, recovering and endurance. Increase nitric oxide 230% and increase recovery and repair time so you don't have as much soreness after your workout. 

Glen Merzer Now, is the product designed to be dissolved in water? Could you put it in yogurt and apple sauce there? 

Geoff Palmer You could, remember it's concentrated, so it is designed to put it into more water. So if you're using it in something that is going to be concentrated, just understand it's going to taste concentrated too. So that's probably just to put it into a, shaker or water bottle, and diluted into a good amount of water. And you could drink it's natural cherry flavor. Everything we do is non-GMO, natural, obviously certified vegan and gluten free too. So all four of those, we are in every product that we do. Obviously, being a vegan of almost four decades, this March, I will be start my 40th year as a vegan. 

Glen Merzer Oh, we're going to have to have a special show. 


Glen Merzer You have to have some festivities here for that. Let's see, when will it be 40 years for me? I think it'll be in about, five more years or so. 

Geoff Palmer We're close. 

Glen Merzer So, let's talk about supplements in general. You're in the supplement business. You have your company, clean machine, cleaning machine And you have a certain number. How many different supplements do you sell yourself? G3, the intense. 

Geoff Palmer Omega three. Three. And, a product called cellblock 80 which helps support both for men and women, optimal hormone levels. And it's a more for balancing and optimizing hormones, not just stimulating. I don't believe in that. 

Glen Merzer Okay. But I want to ask about your overall view of supplements. There are some in the whole food plant based movement who emphasize the whole food and say, you don't need supplements, don't worry about supplements. Just eat whole foods. Nature has designed, you know, a bounty for us and emphasize whole plant foods rather than isolating nutrients. But, you know, usually they'll say, but you need B12 if you're vegan. So with the exception of beet, you have some, whole food plant based advocates, vegan advocates who just say, just take one supplement, B12. Some others say, well, B12 plus D3, take your vitamin B and your vitamin D, and then you're done. You don't have. 50 different types of supplements. You just have a few. But tell us your philosophy on supplements. How many do you think you know are valuable to take? How many supplements do you take and how do you see the role of food versus supplements? 

Geoff Palmer So I think there are some things, we have changed our lifestyles and modern living. We're not living naked, outside in nature. And we're not have our feet in the soil and pulling food right out of the ground and eating it. That's just not what any modern Americans are. Humans mostly. So most of the civilized, in a modern, era does. So we've removed the sun from our daily exposure, so we need to replace that. Just like we remove the bacteria that produce B12 from our water supply. But. Okay, so here's an example. Vegans can tend to latch on to this idea. I'm getting all the nutrients I need from my wholefood plant. And I agree, you can get almost all of them from that way. D3 and vitamin B12 are two of the exceptions. There's no vitamin D3 and plant foods. There are some, in the fungi kingdom, lichen and mushrooms, but only when they are forced to be exposed to direct sunlight. So it's kind of an artificial process. It's not a natural process. They naturally produce vitamin D two, which is not only shown to be inferior, about a third less effective, but also can inhibit, vitamin D3. So not the best approach, to be honest. And that's where I feel supplementation came in, comes in. The reason it's so important one of many is a brand new study just came out. Actually, I'm doing talk on my podcast tomorrow about this study because I think it's so important, especially for vegans. 

Glen Merzer And where can our listeners find your podcast? 

Geoff Palmer Yes. It's on YouTube at, Clean Machine Online. 

Glen Merzer Okay. What's your podcast going to be about tomorrow? 

Geoff Palmer About, study on vitamin D3? They found those with insufficient intakes of vitamin D3. Either through food or supplementation. Had a 40% increased risk for dementia. Now this. This is coming up. The reason why I think this is really important. There's a new study that's not been published, but I've been privy to, and probably will be coming out later this year, published later this year, showing vegans have a have a higher risk rate for dementia. And. And it's not because of their diet. It's because of a high propensity of vegans to not want to supplement. 

Glen Merzer Oh, so you're saying, a lower percentage of vegans take D3? Correct, than the general population? 

Geoff Palmer Cause there's this belief amongst vegans that I'm eating a healthy plant based diet. I don't need the supplement. Another example of that was a woman. Now, this is one example, but I got it from, Doctor Gregor's website. And a woman was admitted to a mental hospital, and she was full on hallucinating and visual hallucinations and everything. And she was in there for a couple of years, and the doctor answers. And did she ever eat anything right? And she said, oh, she's she's been vegan for a while. And so they did bloodwork and they found her B12 was almost non-existent. They gave her B12 and within weeks she was fully fine. So she lost years of her life and immense the lenses institution, simply because she believes she didn't have to take supplements because she was eating a vegan coffee plant based diet. It's too important when you're talking. Our brain health, D3 and vitamin B12. 40% increased risk for dementia just by not taking a D3 supplement. I really want to stress, please, let's not become bad examples for the for the plant based movement. I believe in a whole food plant based diet, but there are exceptions. We're not getting D3 from sunlight and it's not in our food supply. You must supplement if you don't want to risk really serious problems. Dementia is a cause of death for a couple of percentage of our people in the United States. 

Glen Merzer Now I take your D3. How many units are there of? 

Geoff Palmer It's 4000, which is. Okay. So, thousands of researchers got together to establish what they feel should be the base recommendation. And they said 4000 IU's that will reach people who have more body fat, which D3 absorbs. People of darker skin color, the higher the amount of melanin your skin, the dark, your skin, the harder it is for you to absorb and utilize D3. So 4000 will fit just about everyone, whether you're elderly, overweight, black, Hispanic, whatever. This will cover just about everybody. And so this is what we put in ours. That's the recommend the highest recommendation of the largest global consortium on vitamin D3. 

Glen Merzer Now it gets absorbed better when it's accompanied by fat. Is that right? 

Geoff Palmer Yes. But generally there's so much in the diet that we don't have to worry about. 

Glen Merzer In other words, you don't have to worry to take your D3 with, with a plant based yogurt. 

You know, if, you. 

Geoff Palmer Know, even. 

Glen Merzer If you had that yogurt or a nut or something a few hours ago, that will suffice. 

Geoff Palmer We actually put, coconut, medium chain triglycerides, which is the fat, into the D3 so that it is fat soluble already. 

Glen Merzer So we don't have to worry about what we have it with. 

Geoff Palmer No. But a really good research, study came out, showing that even those exposed to high amounts of sunlight were not absorbing the vitamin D3 except a certain part of the population. And they looked at that part of population. What do they do differently? They consume more fiber. So fiber plays a role in vitamin D3 or oral or dietary, either supplement or food. Fiber plays a role in the body's ability to bring in that and utilize and make it bioavailable. So the body has to take the D3 and convert it to what's called 2508 D3, which is the active form. They found that those with the highest amounts of fiber, which only comes from plants, the highest amount of fiber had the highest also amounts of 25, of which the active form of vitamin D3 in the body. Here again, plant based diets to the rescue. 

Glen Merzer So, besides B12 and D3. I had obviously you you you have a few a couple other products. So. Do you feel that, for example, your, omega product. Tell us about that. And do you feel that that is, more optional or more necessary? 

Geoff Palmer And I will say depends. And. 

Glen Merzer And what is the product? Just tell us what you're. 

Geoff Palmer Yes. So, this, he flour. I think it's I can hold it up here. He flower, omega three. So this is the richest source of omega three, of any plant ever discovered. It won the next award. They'll. And they're for. That's the top supplement award in the United States. Given out to one product a year. And it won an award for good reason. It is the richest source of, an omega called SCA. So Ala converts to SDR and then down to EPA and now the fish oil industries, the really good propaganda campaign, an advertising campaign that make people believe that EPA and DHA are the only important ones, which is totally not true. There's only one essential omega three, and that is Ala, which is made by plants. Then animals take Ala and convert it to EPA, and I should say herbivore animals do that. Carnivore animals do not do that. They cannot convert ala. So the essential fatty acid for carnivores is EPA. Now human beings? It's Ala, which is also one of the reasons we know human beings are herbivores, because if we were carnivores, we wouldn't have those ability to convert Ala because carnivores can't do that. So this is one of the other ways that physiologically, we know, without a doubt, human beings are herbivores. All right. So the big deal with Ali was people were taking blood studies. It's called the omega three index. They draw some of your blood out, your blood veins, and they measure how much DHEA is in there, because DHEA is important for the brain. And then they said, oh, wait a minute. Only about 1% of that alpha is getting converted to DHEA. So the fish oil industry seized on this and said, you have to get your DHEA from fish, because if you take fish, oil shows up in the blood, you have really high levels of Da in your bloodstream. So that was the consensus for the last basically 50 to 100 years. And it was wrong the whole time. So a new study just came out showing that 13 times as much Ala gets converted in our tissues than in our bloodstream. So our body is converting all the Ala to DHEA that it needs for the brain, for the heart, for the kidneys, for the fat, for the liver, all of it, all the necessary. So this whole myth is just crumbling. Right now, the global organization for EPA and DHA called Go Ahead, had to even publicly come out and say, well, looks like we got a. 

Knee jerk focus. 

Glen Merzer Well then how does a person know if they're a good candidate to take your ahi flour supplement. How do you know if you need more. 

Geoff Palmer Great question. And unfortunately we don't have a test with this because we were relying on the blood test for so long. And that don't give you an accurate measurement of EPA and DHA. If you're consuming EPA and DHEA, because of course you put it in your mouth, it's going to show up in your blood. That's the way it works. But if you're consuming Ala, the conversion doesn't happen except in the tissues. So the body takes this Ala and takes it to all the different tissues the brain, the heart, live the kidneys and lets it hang there and store in fat tissues. And then it says, oh, do you need some for your liver? Okay, let's convert to EPA. Do you need some for your brain? Let's do some Ala there and some DHEA. So it regulates this conversion on an as needed basis for your gender, for your age, for your health condition, for very specific reasons. Now, if you dump EPA pre-formed from fish oil and that's all it can be. That's it. It's EPA or DHEA. And the body uses it or kicks it out. Interesting studies show that we consume DHEA, and let's say it lasts for maybe 30 to 60 days. If you consume Ala, it can stay in the body for up to a year. So the body's holding on to it when you need it. So if you're consuming high amounts of Ala, you may be less risk for deficiency than those consuming EPA. DHEA that this is thought to be just the opposite because they were measuring it in the bloodstream. But you could only get the high levels of EPA and DHA by taking fish oil. Now we know the opposite is true. The plant form is better because it's pulling it in at this primary state, and then only converting it down when you need it, where you need it, and tissue specifics. Now the problem with this is you can measure EPA in the blood and DHEA in the blood when you're consuming fish or animal products. It's not there if you're vegan or plant only if you're not consuming it. So this is the challenge. You can take a biopsy, which is take a little chunk out of your butt, and measure it there to see what your levels are. But how many times are you going to want to have that little fat needle stuck into your bottom to pull out a little fat tissue? 

Glen Merzer I don't do that more than once or twice a day. 

Geoff Palmer Yeah. It's a it's not a favorite of mine either. So it's just not going to happen. It's not cost effective. We need to come up with a new system, a way of measuring omega threes. And till then. And this is why I think it's important. It's better to on the plus side. So you can say, well, I eat flax, I do chia. And as a what do you know that you're getting enough? No you don't. No one knows that. It is not known. It is an unknown entity. So my vantage is I'm careful about my health, especially my brain, my liver, my heart. These are really important organs. I would like to on the side of having a little excess. Then not enough until we get a foolproof method of measuring it. I'm actually working with some of the top researchers on Omega Nutrition right now to try to come up with a new test for vegans, so that we can actually measure this by measuring downstream metabolites, maybe in the urine or in our, exhalation. 

Glen Merzer Wow. 

All right. 

Glen Merzer Okay. And, and then there's this product that we talked about before, the intens. Yes. Nitric oxide. Again, not easy to measure whether or not you need it. Right. 

Geoff Palmer Well, and that's why I choose these ingredients that have been already researched in and published in human studies. So we know, yes, we gave it to humans. This is what we measured. It's clinically established, you. 

Glen Merzer Know, so it's clinically established that it does boost nitric oxide production. And there's no harm to having more nitric oxide. So that's your case. Why not boost. 

Geoff Palmer And this from polyphenols. It's from plant foods. 

With some. 

Geoff Palmer Of the healthiest foods on the course. 

Glen Merzer Right. Which which brings us to the definition of supplement. Because for example you could find in the supplement section, you know, an isolated vitamin E capsule. And I wouldn't take that. I'm a little nervous about taking an isolated vitamin like that. Ed has mixed reports in the journals about whether it's good for you or bad for you. But you can also find in the supplement section something like, oh I don't know, beetroot powder. 

Geoff Palmer This. 

Glen Merzer It's in the supplement section. It isn't a whole beat, but the only ingredient is dehydrated beet. So it's kind of close to being a whole food, just without as much fiber and water as if you ate the beet. You can find, I don't know, original capsules. And I don't really know that if you open up that capsule and you put, you know, you put that oregano. 

Geoff Palmer Pasta sauce. 

Glen Merzer In the pasta sauce, it's really the exact same thing as the spice. Right. So there's this definition of supplements. So we could define supplements as anything that's in the supplement section. But some of it, especially if you if it's in powder form and you take it out of the capsule or if it's in a package, it's not that different from being a spice, right? 

Geoff Palmer Correct. And so there's, there's some supplements I would personally never take. Some can be dangerous. Some can be just totally worthless and ineffective. Like, I think the vast majority of probiotics are ridiculous. REM, 40 trillion probiotics and over 400 different species in our gut. You think a probiotic with a billion compared to 40 trillion is going to make a hell of a beans? You're better off eating a high fiber diet and feeding the bacteria and letting them grow on their own. Then you are taking a capsule full of something that has six strains in it. Well, we got. 


Geoff Palmer Strains of bacteria in there. You got six of them? 


Geoff Palmer It's just that now, I think there is specific probiotics for specific health conditions that might be appropriate. And, and, you know, a dosage for treating something there. I think there's a place for that. But general probiotics that you buy off the shelf or just overall health, I think are an absolute waste of money. So I'm not for all supplements. I am for specific nutrients and supplements, like most people, think you know what the number one most use supplement in the world is? 

Glen Merzer What's that? 

Geoff Palmer Salt. It's a sodium mineral. It's an isolated mineral. It's sodium chloride. It's two minerals, actually. And that is the most commonly used. And then next, the actually the the one right behind that is sugar. It's an isolated carbohydrate. You know, we call isolated protein powder a supplement. Well, if you want to do that then sugar is a supplement. You're isolating a carbohydrate just like I. Oil is an isolated fat. Protein powder is an isolate protein. That's what tofu is. It's an isolated protein. Most of the fiber, almost all of the fiber and most of the carbohydrates take it out. So it's almost all protein. 

Glen Merzer So it's got a lot of fat too. 

Geoff Palmer It does have a lot of fat, but not carbs and not fiber. So it is isolated for just those two macros. Now look at say can that is isolate wheat protein and it's 80% the same isolation as protein powder. So if you can eat say, and tofu but say no to protein powder, there is no difference. The same isolated proteins once pea and rice. Now there's wheat and soy. There's no difference. T t is, is a supplement. You're extracting the herb using hot water. Same with coffee. Coffee's a supplement. You're taking a bean, you're drying it and then extracting it through hot water. That's an herbal extract. That's a supplement. Well, a lot of people. All the herbs and spices in your cabinet. Those are all supplements. You're not eating them as food. You're supplementing them to your food. There's not much Bragg's amino acid. Yeast. Nutritional yeast. Those are all supplements. They don't think of them that that way. They think of as food because they serve it. So I think we got to get past this stigma, this mental stigma that, supplements are bad because, Doctor Greger hates them, you know, and vegans don't need them. And, you know, I could be big and strong. I don't need I don't need supplements. And a great whole food plant base is the way to go. But don't be foolish. And don't fool yourself if you're saying, oh, I'm eating a lot of omega threes, and then you go home and eat practically nothing. And in your day, without any omega threes, your body doesn't say, well, I believe you are. So we're good. That's not how it works. It either has the Omega three or is that. And it's up to you to to be honest with yourself. Am I really eating that or do I eat just flax toast once a once a, you know, or a bowl of cereal once a week? And I think I'm getting enough. Don't don't fool yourself because you're you're only risking your body's a poor nutritional state. 

Glen Merzer Now, would having a powder like beetroot powder be another good way of generating nitric oxide? 

Geoff Palmer Yeah, actually, the greens are even higher in nitric oxide than the beetroots are. But yeah. So the cool thing about, whole beets for generating nitric oxide is that here's a tip for you. When you're drinking beet powder or the liquid beet juice. Swish it around your mouth. The more it mixes with that bacteria, well, mix more of the nitrates and turn them into nitrates, which then will turn into nitric oxide. So don't gulp your beet juice, even. 

Speaker 3 If you want to get it. 

Geoff Palmer Past that real quick. And because you produce less nitric oxide. Swish it around your mouth and let it mix with it. Bacteria that rests on your tongue and that will actually increase the nitric oxide of it. Throw in a little beet greens, the beet tops with your beets. So buy the whole beets in the grocery and then juice the beet with the beet greens. You'll get even better. Nitric oxide. The cool thing about beets is that they've shown the nitric oxide boosting ability of beets. Last for two days, 48 hours. Yeah. So very long lasting. 

Glen Merzer Or you could put the beat greens in a soup. 

Geoff Palmer Indeed. Yeah. 

Glen Merzer Now, how do you feel about, taking curcumin or turmeric as supplements? 

Geoff Palmer I love it. So there's two nutrients we know that bio accumulate in the brain and turmeric or Kirkham and the the active polyphenol in turmeric. Actually, because Indians use, turmeric so much in their food and their cooking and the autopsies of, people from India, that are eating Indian food, and using a lot of it. They autopsy their brains, and, and part of their brain actually turns yellow because it's bile accumulating and protecting, especially that pineal gland, a part of their brain. Now, interestingly, the other nutrient that does this is, lutein. So most people think of lutein for eye health, right? Eye is directly connected to the brain. So not only does it protect the eyes from blue ray, light damage, lutein acts as kind of a sunscreen for your eyeballs against Blu ray, which is, you know, your your phone, your TV, your computer. All of those are Blu ray. So, that protects it. But they found that the mother, when she's eating food that gets all sucked up by the baby, the baby hogs. 


Geoff Palmer Grabs all the lutein it can out of the mother's bloodstream and then stores it all up in the brain. Now, the cool thing about this is, the more you eat through your entire lifetime, the higher the accumulation in the brain. So your brain hogs it, stores it, and keeps it. Pretty cool. 

Glen Merzer So the brain hogs lutein. 

Geoff Palmer Lutein and and curcumin. Yeah, those two are rich, rich polyphenols. 

Glen Merzer So, how much can the brain store? 

Geoff Palmer A pretty lot, apparently, because the body will. The brain will continue to keep. They found that those with the highest amounts of lutein at the, on autopsy, at the end of life had almost no incidence of Alzheimer's disease or senile dementia. That's how neuroprotective lutein is for the brain. Probably even more important than eye function is, lutein. Studies on the brain health. 

Glen Merzer All right, now, some people need eggs for the lutein. So what should we be eating for the lutein? 

Geoff Palmer Dark greens. The darker the green, the better. So kale. Spinach. Lambda. One of the richest sources of lutein on the planet. Okay. And then, brightly colored oranges, too. So carrots, pumpkin, anything with, orange or yellow color to it are generally high in lutein as well. 

Glen Merzer Somehow nature was designed that the colorful foods are the healthiest foods. 

Geoff Palmer They do that on purpose to attract us to them, visually, making it easy to see from a distance and, pointing the direction to us. Hey, eat this. 


Glen Merzer So it isn't hard to figure out. 

You know, they. 

Geoff Palmer Make it easy for us. Colored by numbers. 

Glen Merzer All right, Geoff, it's great speaking with you. Thank you for informing us of what year nitric oxide was the molecule of the year. A lot of people had been writing to me wondering what year it was. The molecule of the year was 1992. I don't remember that. 

Geoff Palmer But when did it win the Nobel Prize? Oh. 

Glen Merzer Was that 98? 

It was right. I read the book. 

Glen Merzer The book with the lousy recipes. A recipe with six eggs in it. And that'll really increase your need for nitric oxide. 

Speaker 3 That's exactly. 

Glen Merzer Geoff Palmer, thank you for joining us again. You can find Geoff's products at Clean Machine I didn't even mention, Geoff, that you are a national bodybuilding champion. And in your honor, today I did 25 pushups, right? Which may be a national record for a person my age. 25 pushups I did. 

Geoff Palmer That's awesome. 

Glen Merzer Okay. Well. As best I can do. Geoff will see you soon. Everyone please subscribe to The Glen Merzer Show on YouTube. And, see you next time. 



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