Banking on Compassion: Strategic Growth for Plant-Based Advocacy with Cheryl Moss

In the world of plant-based business, the line between heart-led advocacy and corporate strategy often blurs. For Cheryl Moss, a veteran of the banking and finance industry, this intersection is where the most significant impact happens. As the host of the Better Life for Animals podcast and a mission-driven children’s author, Cheryl is leveraging her two decades of financial expertise to solve one of the biggest challenges in the vegan space: sustainability.

In our latest episode of the Plant Based On Fire podcast, Bryan sits down with Cheryl to discuss her journey from the boardroom to the barnyard and her ambitious quest to raise $100,000 for Mercy for Animals.

The Corporate Blueprint for Vegan Advocacy

Transitioning from a 20-year career in banking to animal advocacy might seem like a sharp pivot, but for Cheryl, the skill sets are identical. Strategic planning, risk assessment, and financial oversight are the hidden engines behind successful nonprofits and sanctuaries.

Why Heart Isn't Enough: The Business of Sanctuaries

Cheryl highlights a common vulnerability in the sanctuary world: running purely on emotion. While passion is the catalyst, strategic operations are the lifeline.

• A Plan for Sustainability: Sanctuaries must be treated as businesses to ensure they can continue feeding and caring for rescues.

• Strategic Budgeting: Cheryl notes that many smaller sanctuaries fail to budget for essential professional services like legal counsel and PR, which are critical for long-term growth and protection.

• Donor Retention: Success stories are built when donors feel like active partners in a sanctuary’s mission, rather than just a source of one-time funding.

Narrating a Kinder Future: The Power of Children’s Literature

Recognizing that societal change starts young, Cheryl authored a trilogy of children's books: Gabriel, Cluck, and Pickle. These stories address the harsh realities of factory farming through a lens of compassion, aimed at young readers who are not yet conditioned by industry norms.

Breaking the Stigma Early

Cheryl and Bryan discuss the cultural narrative that links meat consumption to masculinity—a barrier specifically targeted by the Real Men Eat Plants movement. By reaching children with stories of animal rescue, Cheryl aims to build a generation where plant-based living is the default, not the exception.

"It’s polarizing, it’s controversial, but I do it for the animals. That feeds my courage." — Cheryl Moss.

Reaching the 10% Tipping Point

A central theme of the interview is the "10% tipping point". Currently, the vegan population sits at approximately 2-3%, which Cheryl argues isn't enough to significantly sway legislation or industry standards.

• Normalization Over Polarization: Cheryl encourages restaurants to offer plant-based options that are enticing to everyone, rather than labeling them in a way that isolates meat-eaters.

• Collective Impact: Individual efforts are vital, but supporting organizations like Mercy for Animals provides the infrastructure needed to impact legislation on a global scale.

• The Power of Consumer Momentum: Bryan highlights how collective action, such as plant-based communities supporting vegan stocks during market dips, demonstrates the growing financial power of the movement.

Actionable Takeaways for Vegan Entrepreneurs

1. Volunteer Before You Launch: If you are considering starting a sanctuary or nonprofit, Cheryl recommends volunteering first to understand the grueling physical and financial reality of the work.

2. Highlight the Underrepresented: There is immense value in spotlighting smaller, struggling sanctuaries that lack the TikTok-ready marketing of larger entities.

3. Expand the "Muscle of Compassion": Move beyond just health or environmental messaging; connecting people to the unnecessary suffering of animals is often the most permanent mindset shift.

Connect with Cheryl Moss

To support Cheryl’s mission to raise $100,000 for Mercy for Animals or to explore her upcoming summit on sanctuary sustainability, visit Better Life for Animals.

🔥 Ready to ignite your plant-based business journey?

Catch the full episode with Cheryl Moss on our latest podcast release.

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Episode’s Transcript

Please understand that a transcription service provided the transcript below. It undoubtedly contains errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. Bryan (00:01.442)

Welcome to Plant Based on Fire, where we talk about plant-based businesses and their inspiring stories to thrive in the industry. I'm your host Brian, and today's guest is Cheryl Moss. She's the host of a Better Life for Animals podcast and a passionate advocate for animal welfare. She's on a mission to raise $100,000 for Mercy for Animals while spotlighting sanctuaries and change makers who are working to end factory farming.

Cheryl is also an accomplished children's author with books that teach compassion and sustainability to young readers. We're thrilled to welcome Cheryl Moss to the show. Welcome, Cheryl.

Cheryl (00:38.442)

Thank you, Brian. It's a pleasure to be here.

Bryan (00:40.878)

We appreciate you carving out some time to speak with us today. I mean, you have a very impressive, background and successful career, both in banking and finance and things like that. Like how have the skills you've developed in those areas, like risk assessment, strategic planning, those kinds of things directly translated into the launch and growth of your better for life, animals for animals podcast.

Cheryl (01:05.718)

Well, it's a great question. I don't know that they 100 % intersect because better life for animals and my vegan advocacy is my passion. It doesn't have to be about the bottom line for me, but I can say that because I have a job. So, you know, I understand that everyone needs to make a living. we, at Better Life for Animals, we do a lot of highlighting of sanctuaries, who oftentimes they run from the heart.

Bryan (01:16.641)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (01:35.818)

which is laudable and where we want them to come from. However, they are also a business. They need to be able to be sustainable. And so we always want to emphasize that in addition to taking care of the animals, you have to have a plan. So that's a business.

Bryan (01:54.382)

Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm curious, like, you know, I want to let the audience understand a little bit more about, you know, how you came about with the idea of Better Life for Animals and tell us a little bit more about Mercy for Animals. Just help set the stage for us before I ask a few deeper questions on the podcast itself. I'm so curious on that.

Cheryl (02:15.592)

Absolutely. Well, I've been in banking my whole career since I was in my twenties. And when I was in my forties, I started to realize that I didn't want to participate in eating animals and learning more about the cruelty, which is intentionally kept from us, but information is out there. So that was a good 20 years ago that I became vegan. And I was fine with being vegan and no one else needed to

Bryan (02:34.445)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (02:45.162)

do anything differently in order for me to be fine with that. But as my awareness grew and my desire to do more just kept increasing, I decided I needed to become more of an advocate, because this is such an important dark space. We don't have enough voices. So it's been a process. It's taken me a while to get, quite frankly, the courage to be a little bit.

Bryan (03:03.319)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (03:12.598)

polarizing, a little bit controversial, but I do it for the animals. And so that feeds my courage. So I think what really hit for me was COVID. When COVID hit and I was listening to NPR, there was a famous chef talking about how they were pouring milk out because they didn't have the distribution channels. And his recommendation was that the guy would turn that milk and those

Bryan (03:26.062)

Mm.

Bryan (03:38.678)

Ahem.

Cheryl (03:41.792)

products over to the restaurant industry because they did. And I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, you this is, you have it all wrong. This is in fact, our opportunity as a society to realize that, you know, we are misusing these animals from, you know, start to finish and we don't need to. It's not necessary. It's not, it's inhumane and it's not good for us. And I just felt like it was going to be the opportunity to reset.

And so I wrote Gabriel out of that, which was all about a cow being rescued, basically slated to become veal. And so I wrote that book and then I decided I really wanted to get a compassionate publisher involved. I wanted to do it the traditional way. And so I had forged a relationship with Mercy for Animals and they helped me find a connection through lantern publishing and media.

So I was able to get my book published through them. So that started. once you do one farm animal, I wanted to try and cover all of them. Of course, I didn't. But I covered all the chickens and the fowl and the turkeys in my next book entitled Cluck. And then I finished with Pickle, which is about a pig that is caught up in a hurricane, which is based on a true story, and ends up at a sanctuary.

So those were my trilogy of books. for any of you who have published a book, that's not where it ends. You really must market yourself unless you're with Simon and Schuster, I guess. So I was trying to get them out there and trying to work through various little fundraiser things or summits, Reducitarian, AVA, all of those types of.

opportunities to show your books. And I find that for me, I kept feeling like I wasn't doing enough. And even though I was donating with Mercy for Animals, and I think that's, know, everyone should be looking to donate to a company that really has the infrastructure to impact legislation, to maybe change the needle, because small, you know,

Cheryl (06:09.49)

small individuals cannot necessarily do that on their own. So I feel that there's a collective, a way to get involved collectively like with Mercy for Animals as an example. But for me personally, it just wasn't enough because I don't work for Mercy for Animals. I work at a bank and it wasn't just, it wasn't feeling like I was doing enough. So I thought about it for a while and I...

Well, what can I do? Because we can all do something. I thought, well, I can speak. So I came up with the idea, kind of like yourself, Brian, where I thought I can have a podcast where I can get the word out that we want to create a better life for animals. And we decided to focus, not exclusively, but our focus is on sanctuaries, because that's where so many of these animals

Bryan (06:42.167)

That's right.

Cheryl (07:04.208)

deserve to be, know, unfortunately it's a very small fraction, but we, it's our only opportunity, it seems to me, for people like myself who live in suburbia or urban settings, we don't really get to mingle with cows and pigs and chickens. And I find humans to feel like if they aren't serving me, then why are they here? That's just, in my view, the wrong way to look at things. They're here because they're here, just like you're here.

Bryan (07:20.087)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (07:26.605)

That's right.

Bryan (07:32.481)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Cheryl (07:33.514)

just like I'm here. So we at Better Life for Animals have been focusing on sanctuaries. And we're very excited because on January 13th, we're going to have our first summit where we're going to be interviewing some of our leading sanctuaries that we've interviewed who are going to be able to lay out some best practices for sustainability and fundraising. Because as you know, Brian, that's where it's all.

That's what you don't have any money. You don't get to be a sanctuary.

Bryan (08:07.885)

Yeah. As a, as a business coach, I try and tell people all the time without any leads coming in, you aren't going to be in business very long. So, um, that's a core, a core element. I, I appreciate that. I mean, it's, it's sad. I saw something on LinkedIn just the other day that says the, even if we raise the animals in the best possible conditions and everything else, they're still being killed for meat.

you know, far younger than they would ever have lived naturally. You know I mean? It's like weeks for chickens, it's months for any other animals. mean, and there's just, I don't know, a hundred billion of them. So like it's a fraction of a fraction of a fraction that actually get to make it to a sanctuary. So it is something that like, we just have to change on this planet and in a big, big way, both for sustainability. I don't know. You and I both are, are well versed in a lot of the facts. I'm sure.

I want to tie it back. I'm just curious, cause you touched on it. Like I came to this cause through the health aspects first, right? And now I'm a strong advocate for the environment and the animals as well. But it, you know, I created the podcast, you know, the real men eat plants podcast for the purpose of trying to bring more men to this. Cause I think we're the stigma we're stuck in the mud. Masculinity is tied to eating the meat in a lot of ways.

you came to it through this animal passion and stuff, but we both have a podcast that's, I think the little bit I've seen of yours and I'm gonna watch more of it, it seems like very good high production value and you and I both in the same boat for a little monetary return, right? Like we're both spending our time and energy on this. How do you define your show's success?

and the metrics that you're measuring on the show. I'm just curious.

Cheryl (10:03.776)

Well, for me, I feel like I'm just getting started. It takes time. It's going to be people that watch it, watchability. How many views do we have? But I will keep doing it, whether or not it, I don't have to make any money per se. I have a job. So as long as I have that job, I will continue to do it. And because it feeds me, it

Bryan (10:07.895)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (10:25.451)

Yeah.

Cheryl (10:31.218)

If I'm not doing anything about this topic, it depresses me. So I find that I need to be doing something. So it is, it is, I do follow the the leaders, the views. And I think we're making some traction. get more and more people wanting to be on the podcast every day on, know, so something's going right. And, you know, we are serving a very small niche, but a very

Bryan (10:35.425)

Yes.

Yeah.

Bryan (10:55.074)

That's right.

Cheryl (11:00.456)

a niche of people that oftentimes don't even have time to watch a podcast. They're up before the light is out, they're out feeding animals, they're at the vet, they don't have money to take care of fencing, they don't have enough money to accept another rescue. So they need help. And I'm in a position to at least talk about that.

Bryan (11:06.519)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (11:26.603)

Yeah, I love it. And it's, it's interesting because I think, you know, you're raising a hundred thousand dollars for mercy for animals. tell us more about that, fundraising strategy, why that dollar amount, what platforms techniques are you using to inspire this? Like it's, it's a lot of money, but it's, it's a lot of money for an individual. It's not a lot of money as a whole society. If we can get

A whole bunch of us to donate $10, $20 that hundred K would be filled up in no time. We see it happen all the time. How did you pick that goal and talk to us about your strategy to hit it?

Cheryl (12:02.486)

Well, it's a personal goal and I'm doing it myself over time. As long as back to the job, as long as they have a job, I will be fulfilling that promise. Of course, when they have fundraisers, I'm in there, I donate monthly. When they have galas, I buy tables. When they need help with, Leah needed help with her transfer.

Bryan (12:09.954)

Yeah.

Bryan (12:14.263)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (12:31.67)

transformation, book launch, I'm there for that. Whenever I can, I help them because they are, in my view, very effective and they're gonna make possibly move this needle. So that's how I'm funding that. I'm not necessarily asking any, although I think it'd be a great idea if anybody else wants to do something like that. It was just to me, $100,000 as one person.

Bryan (12:33.389)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (12:40.865)

Yes.

Cheryl (13:00.466)

No, not a wealthy person is a lot of money. So it's a it's a stretch goal Yeah, yeah

Bryan (13:06.443)

Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I commend you on it. And I think you're going to be well on your way to hit that goal. So keep, keep doing it. the, the children's books, I think it was Gabriel clock and pickle, right? I, know I looked at a couple of them. I want to say I bought one of them. I'd have to go upstairs and double check against the kids bedroom, but, they are beautifully illustrated books.

How are you marketing these books to like bigger, more broad audience? I'm just curious how you're trying to get the word out to get, get eyes on these books.

Cheryl (13:46.08)

Well, through Better Life for Animals. Of course, they're with lanterns, so they promote them at times as well. They're on all the platforms. They're available on Amazon as an example. I know that these are important books to have out there because we need to start with children because as you are so accurately highlighting here, Brian, there's a culture that we live in that says that it's...

Bryan (14:13.602)

Yes.

Cheryl (14:17.8)

masculine to eat meat, you know, and you and I both know how ridiculous that is, but it's art young. And so I felt that I needed to start there. But I also am aware that these books have to be accepted by the parents. You know, if you're a meat eating family and these books end up on your radar and your child says, why are we eating this? And you're not ready to answer that question or possibly make a change, then you're not going to be too

Bryan (14:23.351)

Great.

Bryan (14:33.399)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (14:47.958)

excited about these books. But that doesn't mean I shouldn't have written them, right? They need to be out there and more like them. I just don't feel like there's enough of us. And so, you know, I'm encouraging there to be more Bryans and Sherrilles. You know, all the ordinary people out there, you know, we all need to make our voices heard, make this change, because I think they say that, whatever, we're two to three percent of the population. We really need to be 10 percent.

Bryan (14:50.487)

Yes.

Bryan (14:54.027)

Yeah.

Bryan (15:05.239)

That's right.

Cheryl (15:17.876)

And then we might have some sway. Until then, we're doing all of this enticing, wouldn't it be nice, enjoying us, all this lovely stuff, because people don't want to be upset by your choices. And at this time, they don't have to go through that. But I'm of the opinion that that needs to change, and that's what I'm pushing for. I feel like I can handle 10%. If you told me, it needs to be 50%,

Bryan (15:20.919)

That's right.

Bryan (15:32.267)

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Bryan (15:38.775)

That's right.

Cheryl (15:47.882)

You know, it may not happen in my lifetime and that makes me sad.

Bryan (15:51.566)

But it, but it's, it's exactly right. Cause we get to that 10 % and then the tipping point starts to happen and we'll see the change happen even more. Like it was really interesting. Like what was, I don't know if it was two, three weeks ago with, beyond me, it's stock went down so low. And I, I just started going on every vegan Facebook group. couldn't say, let's just all go buy five shares. You know I mean? Like.

Cheryl (16:14.422)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (16:15.661)

It, you know, whether it's 50 cents, we buy five shares, 10 shares, whatever we can afford for five or 10 bucks. And, sure enough, like two, three weeks later, it rallied back to five or $6 and it's well on its way. Like that's just one example. don't know if our, our 3 % caused that or not, but it was amazing for me to see that, that, know, that kind of momentum could build on that front. That's it. It's, it's interesting. Like I know the one other book that my, I love to read to my daughter is called little P.

I don't know if you've seen that book where you eat the The peas love to eat candy as they're growing up. And that's why peas tastes like candy. I keep telling my kids that all the time to try and get them to eat their peas. So there's something about that reverse psychology angle to get them to eat their vegetables when they're young. But thank you for putting those books out there. Because I do think we need a lot more of that early growth and influence on them.

Cheryl (17:01.983)

Absolutely.

Bryan (17:12.569)

You know, you said it in the beginning of the podcast, you know, like you and I feel, a little bit, it's a, it's a difficult, and I know I went through this transformation to, to feel more bold and empowered to tell people what's really happening when, you know, because we're going against the grain of society to a degree, but, but if they really understood it, like we do, I don't think they want it in the first place. So we're just trying to help them.

have that light bulb go off. And it's going to take a lot more Cheryl and Brian's to do that.

Cheryl (17:45.77)

I agree. And restaurants need to have options out there. People don't, they think they don't know what to eat. It's like, well, if I don't eat meat, what am I gonna eat? And while you and I both know there's lots of options, apparently that hasn't quite hit home yet. I think if every restaurant could at least offer one or two, and they don't have to be called vegan options, because I think that polarizes them and then.

Bryan (17:55.117)

Yeah.

Bryan (18:02.721)

That's right.

Cheryl (18:12.874)

then the meat eaters on the table will not even try it. But just create an enticing, attractive, plant-based option, all of you. And then people will just start eating it. It's like when people say, well, what do you eat? It's like I eat everything else. And it's a lot of it. Yeah.

Bryan (18:16.673)

That's right.

Bryan (18:24.29)

Yeah.

Bryan (18:31.489)

That's right. Well, my favorite, I was at a corporate event just last week. And of course the whole team goes out to the steak place for dinner and, they go, we didn't realize you were vegan, Brian, you know, and I'm like, don't worry. There's the Beyond burger on the menu and I'll have that in the French fries. And I sat then and I, got into this debate over whether or not they would actually even eat it.

And they kept saying, it's, it's full of all these chemicals and everything else. And I, and I just started saying, well, isn't your meat full of all the hormones and stuff too? Like, yeah, we, was a, it was a, it was great to see me debating this with five or six other men, but I had to hold my own on that front for sure. at the, at the table there. So.

Cheryl (19:15.07)

It's interesting, it always comes up when we're eating.

Bryan (19:17.803)

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, but I love talking about it. So bring it on. So, I'm just curious, like you mentioned the summit, let's tie it back in. Like, are you taking some of the themes? Like how much are you leveraging the books and the themes and what you're building with, with the books and pulling it into other pieces, like in the podcast or with the summit, are you like blending this as part of your personal brand with the children's books or

Cheryl (19:46.176)

Well, you know, I've decided that it's children of all ages. And that includes, so I'm referencing adults there.

Bryan (19:50.21)

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (19:54.189)

That's right. Yeah. Good. Well, I, you know, it's hard to, I'm, I'm 48 now and it's, I still feel like a kid in so many ways. I'm like, when am I going to feel like, like an adult, um, even with the gray hair creeping in on that front. So, so yeah, I enjoy, I enjoy that reading the kids books as well. Um, I think one of the other things I noticed as I was doing some research for this, this episode is, is how you're

Cheryl (19:56.052)

Yeah

Bryan (20:20.928)

trying to spotlight the underrepresented animal sanctuaries, like Rowdy Girl and some of the other big ones are blowing up on TikTok and some of those channels. Do you consider that a value proposition that you're trying to help really some, maybe some of the smaller cities or some of the smaller animal sanctuaries get that awareness that they need to be sustainable?

Cheryl (20:43.83)

Absolutely, as I said, they don't have time to even watch a podcast because they're too busy doing the work. And one of the things we're going to talk about in our summit, it's like you think you don't have enough money to have an attorney in your budget or PR in your budget. But we're here to tell you that without those two things, you're going to run into problems. You have to be able to think.

strategically and have a plan in place. And so, yes, we are, I think, highlighting the underrepresented. We're trying to get them some funds, some exposure, because the big ones have that already. And there's also a community that they could be connecting with. And it's back to this comment I've said it. It's like they're just, they don't have the time. Some of these sanctuaries are maybe one or two people. They go to work, also work.

Bryan (21:38.412)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (21:41.214)

And I'm listening to this and I'm going, well, what's going on? You never take a vacation. It's like the old farm farmer. And they have a neighbor who might come in and check on their goats while they're at work. I mean, think about that as a parent. Think about all the interruptions to your day, the thoughts about caring for these little children. It's the same with animals.

Bryan (21:47.66)

That's right. Yeah.

Bryan (21:57.548)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (22:09.034)

So yes, we have been focusing on the smaller sanctuaries, the ones that need help, and we're trying to get the ones that have the plans in place to kind of mentor and build community and connection.

Bryan (22:23.86)

I love it. What if we tie it back to the people out there that want to start a sanctuary or, know, the business owners that have an entrepreneurial spirit and stuff like how, how, what would you recommend to them starting their own nonprofit, getting started with an animal sanctuary or even the ones that might already be, be doing their, their sanctuary? Like what are the tips and tricks of

things to avoid, vulnerabilities that you see with some of the people you've spoken with, like what's the thing they should be looking out for on their journey to set that up?

Cheryl (23:00.01)

Well, I would recommend before you go that far is start volunteering. Start understanding how much work that really is. Do you really want to be up every day, you know, whether be it cold, whether it be hot. Do you want to be, you know, fixing fences? Do you want to be raking? Do you want to be, you know, dealing with vets and predators and all the things? Do you really have that skill set? And if you don't,

Bryan (23:05.344)

Yeah.

Cheryl (23:30.166)

Do know someone, are you set up to combine yourself with someone who does? So it's interesting because everybody should try small. They should try, I think, by volunteering. then maybe when you're donating, if you feel like, and this is one of the things I talk to sanctuaries about, make your donors feel like they're a part of the success story. Because sometimes that will be enough. If we could all band together and create, let's just.

Theoretically, let's create five big successful entities as opposed to 500 struggling, fractured, vulnerable size sanctuaries. think that there's something to be said for that. So there's a business behind starting a sanctuary. You need to buy the land. You need to get, you know.

Bryan (24:10.72)

Yeah.

Cheryl (24:26.326)

You need to think this through. Are you going to be around for 20 to 30 years? Because that's how long the animals could be around. Who are your volunteers going to be? Where is your money coming from? So there's a lot that goes into starting a sanctuary. Just like a business, however, I would say this was even heightened because you're dealing with vulnerable animals who've already been through so much and you're trying to give them peace for the rest of their life.

Bryan (24:30.23)

Yeah, that's right.

Bryan (24:51.201)

Yeah.

Bryan (24:55.136)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (24:55.872)

So don't want to be setting something up that you can't, starting something that you can't finish.

Bryan (25:00.534)

That's right. Do you have some long-term goals for better life for animals beyond the summit? What's coming in the long-term future?

Cheryl (25:11.19)

Well, you I've been really trying to understand what it's going to take to for people to connect to that compassion. What is it that stops us? And there are a lot of theories and there's cognitive dissonance. There's the industry itself that doesn't want us. There's so many entities that are working to keep us ignorant, to keep us in place.

Bryan (25:40.46)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (25:40.822)

And yet, if we just go... If the planet is not going to be able to sustain this, we know this. So at some point, we won't be doing this. I don't know what it's going to look like. I won't be here probably. But it will be... There will be a time when we would say, it's barbaric what we used to do. How could we? But I'm wondering through that whole experience, did we as people grow? Because, you you...

When you connect to that compassionate piece and when you connect to, you you don't want to see another animal suffer, you know, and if you can do everything you can, if you don't have that going for you and you're just going by what's fast and easy and right in front of you and ignoring everything else, how are you evolving as a person? And I think about that a lot. It's like, there's gotta be, we're all capable. That's what's beautiful about being a human. We can...

Bryan (26:31.009)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we are.

Cheryl (26:37.578)

We can grow, we should grow. I'm certainly not the person that I was when I was 20, nor should I be, right? But in order for people to get it, think that you can start with health, you can start with the environment, all of them are great. But at some point, you need to connect to the suffering that's happening that's so unnecessary, I think. And so that's where I see better life for animals.

Bryan (26:43.424)

Mm-hmm. That's right.

Bryan (26:55.436)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (27:07.454)

really hooking into the compassionate piece, how can we expand that muscle of compassion?

Bryan (27:15.596)

It is. Yeah. I don't know. There's so many reactions to that because it's sad that we can feed over a hundred billion animals on this planet, but we can't feed the eight billion humans. And then knowing that a hundred billion plus animals are going to die. You know what I mean? Each year just to feed the rest of us. I do think unfortunately, we're going to run out of fish. Like we're going to see the change in our lifetime. Like something's going to happen on that front, but I certainly hope.

Back to our earlier comment that we get to 10 % in that tipping point before some catastrophic things start to happen and everybody has that rude wake up call. But Cheryl, you are clearly a change maker on a mission. What is the one mindset shift that you believe that's essential for an individual to go from being a passive supporter to becoming this active entrepreneur in the advocate space like you and I are?

Cheryl (28:17.044)

I think it's when you hook into that compassion. think it's when you start to feel the pain of these poor animals cannot speak for themselves. I mean, I'm starting to feel like Jane Goodall here, but she's right that they can't speak. And so it's up to us to speak for them. And it pains me, it's not just that they're going to perish, that we're going to slaughter them. We all know that. What you need to know is they suffer when the moment they're born,

Bryan (28:31.692)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (28:46.71)

every single day until the end. don't, I mean, it's just tragic. It's cruel, it's barbaric, it's unnecessary. And so you can see I get worked up about this and this is what fuels me. And so as long as this is going on, I feel like I'm going to continue to speak about it and do anything I can to get anyone to make a different decision.

Bryan (29:12.97)

Yeah. It, for me, it was like Dominion when I watched that movie and that one hit me so hard because like I'm the guy who's created real men eat plants. And when you're watching the chicken segment and dominion and they point out the fact that the male chicks only get to live one day. If that, you know what I mean? They're born. If they're born men, they're dead in less than a day.

Cheryl (29:28.105)

Mm-hmm.

Cheryl (29:31.958)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Bryan (29:40.621)

because there's no need for male chicks, you know, so they're just, you know, destroying them immediately. So yeah, so it's very, very powerful when you think of the, the, that side of it. So, uh, this has been an amazing deep dive into it. I love your mission, Cheryl. Um, please come back anytime when you've got a new book or something else that you want to help get the word out about how do people get in touch? How do they connect with you? How can they donate to your a hundred thousand goal? Uh, let us know.

Cheryl (29:43.36)

Right.

Cheryl (30:10.454)

Okay, well, I can be reached at Better Life for Animals, spelled just as it sounds, betterlifeforanimals.com. And that's where you'll find my books, you'll find my mission, you'll find our podcasts, everything about what we're doing. The summit is all available on that website.

Bryan (30:29.344)

I love it. Well, everybody go out there and donate five or 10 bucks to Cheryl and the cause here. And let's be the change that we want to see in the world. Cheryl, thank you so much for being here. It was great talking with you.

Cheryl (30:40.362)

Likewise, Brian. Thank you.

Bryan (30:42.976)

That is all the time we have for this episode of the Plant Based on Fire podcast. Again, thank you, Cheryl, for joining us, sharing your insights and experiences with us and our community. Until next time, everybody, let's keep that fire burning.

Bryan (31:01.164)

why the stop button is not working.

.

Bryan (31:12.234)

I just don't know why the stop button. There's something wrong with my web browser.

It'll just take me a minute to figure out if there's some other way to press stop.

Bryan (31:28.652)

Let's see.

Bryan (31:33.822)

I I probably should have restarted my browser. So thank you. That was a great podcast. If I can get the stop button to stop here.

Cheryl (31:38.966)

Bye.

Thank you.

Bryan (31:48.534)

None of these options are working at the bottom here. It's really strange. Let me...

Bryan (31:59.136)

There we go, let's see if this will work.

Bryan (32:08.364)

Still not working.

Bryan (32:16.782)

You don't see a stop button on your side, right?

Cheryl (32:20.448)

Just a phone where I guess I could hang up like a little phone icon.

Bryan (32:26.156)

Yeah, I just don't know why I can't press stop. It's really strange. None of the buttons at the bottom are working. So let's see here. If there's some other way.

Bryan (32:44.904)

It says uploaded, which is good.

Bryan (33:02.615)

not it. I apologize for this. This is I'm on a brand new computer and a new new camera. But I'm the computer geek so frustrated that this is not working. I'm going to just leave and come right back.

Cheryl (33:04.638)

Okay.

Cheryl (33:08.562)

I have nothing but compassion for technological.

Cheryl (33:22.55)

Okay, no worries.