The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast is back with another riveting episode, featuring an incredible lineup that includes Shane Martin from Shane and Simple Cooking Blog, Bryan, the Founder of Real Men Eat Plants, and Paul Chatlin, the visionary Founder and CEO of Plant Based Nutrition Support Group. This time, they've brought in a special guest, the remarkable Geoff Palmer, Founder and CEO of Clean Machine.
In a candid interview, Geoff Palmer shares his inspiring journey and the mission behind Clean Machine. He eloquently states, "That's why I formed my company, Clean Machine, to help people get better results in the gym so that they stay in the gym, so that they stay with a plant-based diet." Geoff recognizes the challenges many face in adhering to a plant-based lifestyle, emphasizing the importance of achieving tangible results to counteract the high recidivism rate – a staggering 80% of those who attempt veganism eventually revert to their previous habits.
Watch the episode here.
What makes Geoff's perspective so compelling is his commitment to showcasing the practical benefits of a plant-based diet. At the age of 60, Geoff is a natural bodybuilding champion, challenging stereotypes and debunking the myth that equates meat consumption with masculinity. In his own words, he aims to be an example for others, proving that a plant-based lifestyle not only sustains but enhances physical prowess.
Geoff passionately addresses the prevailing misconceptions that hinder men from embracing plant-based living. He urges men to defy the stereotypes surrounding meat and masculinity, recognizing them as nothing more than unfounded propaganda. His candidness and authenticity in discussing the hurdles men face in adopting plant-based diets make this episode a powerful exploration of the transformative potential of plant-based living.
So, gentlemen, let Geoff Palmer's journey be the beacon of inspiration you need to break free from societal norms. The Real Men Eat Plants Podcast continues to break barriers, shatter myths, and provide a platform for empowering conversations. Tune in, listen, and let the journey towards a healthier, compassionate lifestyle begin!
Listen to the episode here.
>Podcast Episode Transcript:
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Are we on and it started? Yes, sir. All right. Well, we're back in the kitchen or my kitchen. So. Um.
And real men stay in the kitchen. Right. Well, Hey guys, I am super pumped about today. I feel like, um, the last one of these we did, we, uh, it was kind of like a bro session and you got dudes just talking about, you know, what our mission in life is and solving the world's problems. But I really do feel like with the whole mission of this podcast and kind of. Our mission, you got four different guys here. And.
four different ways of thinking about things and four different reasons we probably are doing what we're doing, but common cause, common creed as they say, but I thought it'd be good to kind of go around and just let you guys introduce yourselves real quick so everybody knows who's on the podcast. We got our fearless leader, Brian Dinstead, who puts the plumbing in so we can have fun and talk about things.
online and Paul, I'm going to come back to you because you were on the last one, but Jeff, I would love for you to introduce yourself real quick because I think this is the first time you and I have met and, um, I would just love to hear your voice. So, uh, I'm what they call an OG vegan. Uh, I I've been vegan since March 15th, 1985. So years ago. Um,
And back then, I didn't even know the term vegan. I wasn't even aware of it. I just knew that I didn't want to cause any suffering from animals. For me, it was a change from within. I was suffering from suicidal depression after losing my brother, my father, and my mother all within a short period of time. And it was crushing to me. I got into drugs and alcohol. I was in a downward spiral.
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Tempted to take my life ended up in a coma for three days on a drug overdose. I was just desperate to find a way to try to enjoy life and had somebody help me with a breakthrough that was so intense. I quit drinking, quit doing drugs, quit smoking cigarettes and quit eating all animal products that day. Um, it was such a profound experience for me.
I not only dedicated the rest of my life to helping reduce suffering in animals, but I knew that humans were the majority of the cause of that suffering. So I said, I've got to help the humans too as well. So I dedicated the rest of my life that day to trying to find ways to help others improve their health so they're inspired enough to keep reducing the amount of impact that they have both on the animals and the environment. So.
That's why I formed my company, Clean Machine, to help people get better results in the gym so that they stay in the gym, so that they stay with a plant-based diet. Because recidivism is big in our, you know, 80% of people who try veganism stop. I wanna see them continue because that's the only way we can help the animals. So for me, I'm trying to show results. And look, I turned 60 in January, natural bodybuilding champion.
So there is, I want to be that example for other people to show men, hey, don't be scared of all the meat is masculinity myth bullshit propaganda that people, oops, I'm sad. Well, you complete that, right? This is recorded. But just to get beyond the things that are holding men back and hurting men in so many different ways, it's been a powerful experience for me. So.
That's where I'm at. That's where I'm doing. Then I'm so grateful for what you guys are doing in saying real men eat plants right up front and let's get that conversation started. Yeah. I just realized who the heck you are, Jeff. I I'm sitting here going, wait a minute, wait a minute. This is this camp. I recently was having a conversation about you with Milton mills. Yeah. Yes. I was, I was speaking out in Omaha at the healthy for a lifetime conference. And I was talking to him about my son.
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who's a junior at Mississippi State, got into bodybuilding and, you know, has kind of, I mean, he's, my son is awesome. He's an upstanding citizen, but he's kind of gone that way of the, got to fuel my, my protein needs, you know? And so I was talking to Milton about that and he goes, I'm going to get ahold of Jeff. Jeff can help you. And so, um, now that I know this is the Jeff Palmer, um,
I'm going to bug a lot of you going forward. So it's, and Jeff is actually in our silhouette. I mean, that's, I got his form in our silhouette for the logo. But anyway, so when you were, when you held your arms up, I went, okay, this is that Jeff Palmer, I just did just totally, I don't know why it didn't click. But anyway, so yeah, I just, I'm glad to make the connection. Cause I had an awesome time with Milton. He was.
He was awesome. So that is the Dr. Milton Mills from game changers and multi published author. He's a brilliant position and passionate outspoken for the movement too. And we can get him on the show. He needs to be here. So, yeah. So, well, Jeff, thanks for joining us. I mean, I mean, I would say what brought us to this point, but it's like, you just kind of summed that up in like a minute and a half. And I mean, near death brought me here. So
So man was so super pumped to have you and then Paul, um, the OG as well of the plant based support. Whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, it's, it's tough. Jeff, wow. Like you know, I'm not usually tied for words, but how do you follow up with that? I mean, I guess I would say, um, you know, I think we all have our moment, you know, and our drive, you know, your drive was animals.
And then unfortunate things happened to your family. For me, it was just, you know, in my world, my dad and all his brothers died in their 50s. And at 50, I, you know, had the same issues they had, and I have three sons. So it was time for me to change the narrative of my family, or at least try. And, you know, I'm doing it for a lot of reasons, but initially it was to show my sons a different way. And...
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back 12 years ago, that path was a murky one because I was all alone for the first year of that path. I had no idea what lifestyle change meant. I had no idea what impact it would have on my friends and family. But here I am today at 65 and I feel great. I would show you my arms, but I've got no title. I just, I'm just like, I love working out.
and spreading the word. So that's a little bit about me. The organization I run is the Plant-Based Nutrition Support Group, proud to say the only national support group right now in the plant-based world. And then a passion play I'm doing right now with a lot of help from a lot of friends is the Sage Circle Alliance. And just so you know what it is Jeff, Shane and Brian do is, you know, I realized many, many years ago
all the greats that we talk about, they all do very well by themselves in their own silos. And I've been for years begging these people, let's work together. They can't, they won't, and they don't. So, you know, it's kind of, you caught my attention with the Star Trek thing, bro. It was awesome because it was one of those things where, I mean, this, okay, bear with the quick story. Brian's used to me. So I'm, it's like one in the morning and I'm watching
John Luke Picard talking to the Q. Can you relate to that? Totally. And they're bantering back and forth and he's like so impressed with the human race and Picard's so proud of his group. And the Q, who's omnipotent, says, wait till you see what's coming at you. Snaps his finger, shoots him over to the board. And right then I said to myself, that's what we need to pivot.
the plant-based world because right now we're just whispers. We're hardly, we lost so many people with COVID. We're just whispers. Everyone's working independently. So the Sage Circle Alliance is gonna bring not the top tier. They'll come in time, I pray and hope, but that next huge group of people like myself and Brian and Shane and yourself, all together as one, one voice, and then we could actually do some real work. You know, we can make a world of difference. So.
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That's the, that's where I'm spending my plant based time, uh, which is way out of hand, but I love it because I want to make a difference just like all of us do. So thank you. Yeah. You know, and it's interesting and Brian, I don't really, Brian, I don't really feel like you and I need to introduce ourselves. People are going to get tired of us anyway, so they know our show. But you know, but here's the thing, you know, when, uh,
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Oh Lord, I didn't know I was going to be on with Trekkies today. Um, one of the things I find interesting is with the four of us and most people that when it comes to this lifestyle change, like you were talking about Paul and Jeff, even you, you know, it, it feel like it was, it was at crucial moments in our lives and whether it was health.
drug addiction and things like that. But I find it interesting. And there's not many things that I've come across like that changes your life. Like, you know, when you go plant-based and you see the difference in the results, it's crazy. The passion that develops, because I mean, you know, I still tell people if you'd told me, you know, I went vegan, I think, you know, a little over 10 years ago, right before I turned 40 and. You know, pursuing it.
in some way as a lifestyle for, you know, as a livelihood was the furthest thing from my mind. And when I hear these stories, and I think that's what attracts people, you know, people love stories. And especially when it is something that entices you and encapsulates your life as much as like pursuing a plant-based life, a lifestyle that changes your life, you really kind of become this
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It's not that it just changes a direction in your life, but it completely overhauls how you think your health. And regardless, if you came to it for the animals or, you know, I feel like Paul, mine and your story parallels a little better in the sense that, Hey, I've got to do something. I've got kids. I've got to wake up. I want to wake up the next morning. You know, it's like, you become passionate about that. And when you see the results, you know, it's just like, Oh my gosh, I'm walking evidence. And so, um, you know, I think of Brian, you know, you.
going out wanting to start this network of podcasts. And then Jeff, you know, getting in and going after fitness and creating products to keep people going. And then Paul creating a support group and, you know, which I've had the honor of being on a couple of times to cook. So, I mean, Jeff, I want to kind of come back to you, you know, just so people can, we can dive into your story a little bit more, but, you know, when you talk about being vegan since 1985, you know, it's,
I think about how far the plant-based arena has come in the last 10 years as far as accessibility and products and things like that. But what was it like in 1985? Because I mean, again, I can't imagine it being much different in the sense that there were beans and rice available then, but it's like when you decided to like I'm all in and I don't really know what this is. But
You know, how did you feel your body and what was available to you that wasn't available now and then how did you make concessions for that? I'm just, I've just, you know, most people I know that run in my circles have been doing it for five, 10 years, you know, and, you know, and I know the rip Esselstyn's and things like that, but 1985, man, it's like, I don't even, was soy milk even available then? I was like, um, yeah, I, I worked at a little health food store and, and back then, uh,
tofu came in big 10 gallon buckets and you actually took a plastic bag and you fished out your block of tofu and then wrapped it in the plastic bag and that's how you took your tofu up to the register. Wow. It was like bobbing for tofu, I guess you could call it. But I mean, you know, I used to laugh that back then, our choice of vegan products was sawdust, rubber or cardboard.
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At least that's what they tasted like. The quality of the products. Oh my God. I mean, I just posted last week that Krispy Kreme has now got several vegan options of their donuts. I mean, like, this was like, if I said Krispy Kreme was going to go offer vegan donuts in 1985, people would look at me like I'm from a different planet or from a future way, way distant.
than we are now, but here we are. It's amazing that we're seeing such change. No, but I think the biggest issue, the products is a huge thing. It's making more fun foods, enjoyable foods and foods that are familiar people, making it easier for them to make the transition.
Are they the healthiest? No, but neither are the animal counterparts. They're not, they don't eat them because they're healthy. You don't eat a burger because it's healthy. You know, you don't eat pizza or a donut because it's healthy. You do it because it's enjoyable. And what we needed is to take some of the stigma away that it's nothing but rabbit food and give people some, some familiar options. That was important.
But I think it's starting to come a little bit more full circle, and people really do want healthier options. And now it's starting to come into that. But like what Paul is doing, there was just no support group for vegans. You know, there was probably 60 of us in my state, not enough to even have a support group. So it was like that, the social element to me, honestly, has been the most challenging part.
Um, if I told somebody I was vegan, what does that like from planet Vega, you know, they didn't even know what the word meant. Nobody knew what the word meant. I didn't even know when I was vegan. It took me a year before somebody told me, Oh, you're vegan. And I'm like, Oh, cool. There's a word for it. Um, I was calling myself a strict vegetarian. So we've come a long way on so many fronts, social fronts, food, product choices, accessibility, familiarity, education.
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Doctors now prescribing and suggesting it. I mean that didn't happen look there wasn't even science Published about vegan diets. We weren't on the map They didn't even include all of the diet studies were done on standard American diet So there wasn't even published research. So when I would suggest hey, you can get all your omega-3s from From plants and suffice that you know
It wasn't until just last year that we actually, actually even this year is going to be published and we have solid science proving what I've been saying for the last 25 years. Now, that's sad that, you know, it's taken this long for the scientific community to catch up and actually prove what we've known intuitively, compassionately and physiologically for decades. And look, this goes back to Hippocrates. We're talking.
Hundreds of years ago people understood that this was the way to eat Yeah, I got a long winded out there But I think it's I mean, it's I think it's true. I mean, it's like when you think about it Civilizations, I remember my wife talking to I think it was my niece one time She said and this was after we have the research and this was several years This was a few years ago, but she said I overheard her say she said
because my niece was unhealthy and we were trying to help her. And she said, you can go back and find civilization after civilization that has thrived and healthy on a predominantly plant-based diet with grains, legumes over centuries, centuries and centuries. But you can't find societies that thrived and had longevity on strictly meat-based diets or animal protein diets. It just, it doesn't exist.
And so it's like, it's like, where have we been? And, you know, and thank God that the research is there now, but you're right. It's like, why were we not talking about this? I mean, you know, I always heard you got to eat your greens growing up, but we always followed that up. You got to get a big piece of lard in there or season it with pork or something. You know, I mean, so, I mean, so, so kind of fast forward with all of us here. And it's like, why are we here? And we've kind of shared a little bit of why we're here, but, you know, it kind of makes me think when.
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When you talk about how, why it took so long for the research to get here, it's like, okay, I feel like you go into a store and it's like America specifically is starting to catch on and it's like, everything's labeled plant-based now. You know, I feel like the impossible burgers and the corn dogs and, you know, even the local Walmart here in little nowhere, Mississippi, you know, they have this section and I see some people getting it, but it's like, okay, it's here and what brought you here?
Um, you know, and people are like, well, I want to get healthier. And it's like, okay, kind of missing the boat a little bit. Um, you can't eat the vegan corn dogs and hamburgers every day and, you know, get healthy and you're right. They're good to have, but, um, I still don't see men picking those things out. You know, even though they're unhealthy and look like what you would get. And I guess it's like as four dudes.
I mean, what, what did bring us here? Because I think when I think about that, and one of the things Brian and I talk about is I don't feel like men still are really given a space to feel like they can get to where they need to be. Like, I still feel like men have this apprehension where it's, whether it's a protein or I'm going to be jeered or I'm going to be laughed at. And so I think there's an aspect of men struggling to really
Wanting to get, I don't, I don't, well, let me, let me rephrase. I don't think that men don't want to get there. I feel like men don't feel the freedom to be transparent enough to, to find the ways to get there, if that makes sense, meaning the support of where they're going to go to open up and be vulnerable because it mean it is a chance, especially here in the South. I mean, where everything's pork and beef and, you know, and you know, talk about showing up to a cookout with some smoked tofu or something, you know.
I mean, I mean, Paul, I kind of, you're very outspoken. So I would love to, you know, like, I just want to tell men to grow a pair and let's do it, you know, but it's like sometimes, you know,
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Um, I would say, you know, you know, listen, we're men, so we like the challenge and, uh, no one likes to be called out, you know, or, or talk down to like, Hey, you know, you said grow up here, so I would say the P word, but I'm going to stay, stay away from that one. The point here is, is that I remember doing, um, I was, I had an opportunity to go to all the assembly line workers at General Motors.
And this is back eight years ago. And I would talk to them and I went to, excuse me, eight different plants. And you know, I would say, what's your health issue? And you go right up and down the line because most of them were morbidly obese. Great many of them had heart issues. Great many of them had diabetes. You know, they had some health issues. And I would look at them and I got, you know, like, you know, I could kind of brew with them. I'd say,
Listen, what's your number one priority? Well, I work on the line so I can provide for my family. That's my number one thing. I take every hour I can. And I need to provide for my, that's my job. And I said, well, what happens in a couple of years if you're gone? Who's gonna provide for that family now? I said, well, and they said, well, how do you suggest doing it? So I would say, you gotta get rid of the meat and the dairy. Being a heart patient, I always threw in the oil, but I would hold back.
on the assembly line workers. I just say, just, you gotta get up and meet in dairy and start creating some foods that you like. Just come up with four or five and keep repeating. I said, he said, well, I can't do this. I can't do it. Everyone can't do it. And then it got brutal. Then I would look at him, I said, listen, if somebody had a gun to your head and said, if you don't do it for 60 days, this is, you're done. Well, I guess I could do it then. I mean, you're gonna have to just sit there with
people and call them out and press them on to say, just have an open mind for 60 days. You know, we have 21 day jump starts and 30 and all that, but you go 60, you blood tested at the beginning, you blood tested at the end, they're going to lose 20 pounds easy. They're going to see their numbers drop 10, 15, 20%. They're going to see results. And then you got the hook in them. But that's the big problem that I see, which is, you know,
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very few guys are gonna go just on the science and say, wow, it makes a lot of sense. Today I'm gonna do a lifestyle change. That's not right. The other part of this equation is, I think we're going about it a little bit wrong, which is, you know, for anybody, and this is a tough thing for guys, but I used to go at this thing going, hey, you could do anything for 60 days and leave it at that. But now I say to people, if you really wanna make this change, for whatever the reason, animals.
planet, your own health, your family, whatever the reason. You need to lean on somebody in the psychological world and get some tools so when you go to a restaurant, you don't give in. When you go traveling, you don't give in. When you go to a family function, you don't give in. Because I'm just crazy, so I was able to do it just like Jeff overnight. I just said, switch on, switch off. But I was faced with crazy health problems. I was motivated. Yeah.
So I'm saying that we need to start helping guys understand just how big a change it says, but give them the hope and give them some future hope. And I think that's how you might hook a guy. You know, yeah. And I think too, I think, um, you know, I think Brian and Jeff, you both have kind of created like, I know the real men, um, challenge has the 30 day challenge on the website. And.
Yeah. You know, I feel like Brian kind of go into that a little bit, you know, kind of what spawn that because I feel like that kind of talks a little bit. I know Paul was talking about 60 days and yes, 60 days really, really does test you. But you know, it's funny because I've been talking to guys, um, you know, that feel like if they can just get through the first day or the first week. So Brian, talk about that just real quick about the 30 day challenge. And then Jeff, I would love to hear about the, um,
the, um, the, uh, you, the world vegan bodybuilding championship that you'd created because nothing, I think guys don't like anything like they do muscles. And, you know, absolutely. I mean, I can't echo what Paul said enough. I mean, I think three, I don't know fully your story there, Shane, but like three out of us, three out of four of us, we went basically cold Turkey vegan the next day, the thing that's how it was for me. But I know.
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80% of the guys out there can't. And so to say what Paul said and reinforce that is we need support. And so that's what I realized very quickly as I tried to tell some of my men and they're saying, well, my food poops on your food kind of concept, uh, that they're wrong and we've got to, we've got to change that stigma here. And so I, I created the, the real many plants, 30 day challenge to be.
template and the framework and a guide to guide you through some of the things that I went through in my first 30 days on your journey of like even as Jeff said what is a vegan what's the difference between a vegan and a vegetarian and a octo lacto octo all those other ones out there guide you through education guide you through nutrition and protein things and showcase other men so like we're redoing the 30-day challenge to get that polished and I hope to maybe have Jeff
And Shane loop in one day and Paul loop into it one day with like a little bit of anecdote from other men that have gone through this shift to showcase. There are real men out there doing this. You can too. We're here to help you. Like, look, I'd love to get people into Paul's group to have that support system. But, but yeah, so the 30 day challenge is out there. It's on the website and it's ready to help, you know, change the, the planet and the stigma for, for real men. So Jeff, tell us more about the.
bodybuilding now. I know we talked about that briefly before. Yeah, and I think part of the biggest pressure for men, you know, men don't like to like to pretend they're not very emotional. They're very emotional, just like every other human being on this planet. But their feelings are different. And the way one of the things that men fear most is being judged by their peers. And it's a fear that
Unfortunately, the food agribusiness has played upon very successfully that you need to eat meat in order to be masculine and that if you don't, you're going to be judged by your peers as losing your man card, you know? And that is such a pronounced fear that men will fight even their own death sentence. They did in Australia, the thousand.
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pulled a thousand people and asked them, and 70% of men said they would rather give up 10 years of their life than give up eating meat. 10 years of their life? Is that how little we value life? Is that how scared we are of being judged by our peers? I mean, one of the masculine traits is supposed to be bravery. That's not very brave if you're caving.
to a industry propaganda that is using psychology to play on your fears that you're going to be judged by your peers. That's weak. That's being manipulated. What I'm saying is be really strong, be really brave, and stand up for the truth that meat is killing you. And I'm gonna say no, regardless of what my peers say. That's a man. That's standing up to the crowd of resistance.
Amen. Hallelujah. You know, so I wanted to show some, obviously, by living an example of 60 years and almost four decades of being vegan, that look, don't be afraid that you're gonna lose muscle. That's not the case. It's a myth. And it's a very successful myth propagated by an industry that wants you to keep buying and eating their products. It's a sales tactic. Stop.
believing the sales tactics are truth. The studies, the research is just overwhelming right now that higher rates of cancer, higher rates of diabetes, 62%, brand new study just out in 2023, the highest rates of meats had a 62% higher chance of getting diabetes. Diabetes is caused by fat, not sugar. They made this narrative, you know, oh, don't look over here at the saturated fat and cholesterol in our meat. Look at those...
you know, isolated carbs and sugar, that's the culprit, that's the bad guy, point, point. Yeah, well don't eat that either. There's whole food plants that you can eat. But that's, you know, what they've done to manipulate the narrative. And we need to re-seize that narrative. Take control and tell men the truth and get them to stand up against this peer pressure and this propaganda of a.
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Agricultural business that's selling you on a psychology of meat is masculinity. That's a lie. It's killing you. It's the opposite of being masculine. If you wanna be here for your parents who are in their aging years, if you wanna be here for your family, that's masculine. The way to do that is to survive, to be healthy, to be able to play with your kids as they grow up, to be physically in the best shape. Look.
I take zero drugs, no medication, have no diseases at 60 years of age. Most of the people I know, everyone in my family, except my sister, who hasn't reached 60 yet, died before they reached 60. Here I am thriving. That's what you should be. That's what you can be. It's time to re-seize this narrative that that's the proper way for men to behave. It's not, and it's killing you. And let's stand up for the truth. Yeah. Man, that is.
Wow. Okay. I just feel like we just went to church. Yeah. And I just bring you back on something that I've been thinking about and, and Jeff, nice, really nice, nice words. Really. I agree with you, but you know, think about what would happen if we were all working together head of always, and we point our finger to what, you know, I think is the biggest culprit. Yes. They are manipulating us through advertising.
I totally agree there. But what happens if we went right at the, and this has always been a crazy wish list, and I'm gonna just say it. I once wanted to do a class action suit at the medical schools or the doctors. I looked into it and I just don't have enough money. But the point here is what would happen if we got the science, right? We have the irrefutable science.
What happens if we called out every single medical school because not only one school that I know of here in Michigan is teaching nutrition to future doctors, period. And what would happen if we said it's mandatory, it's gotta be part of what doctors learn, and it's the first thing that anybody who goes into a doctor's office should be asked by a doctor, what do you eat? It should be mandated. Because if every,
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because we hold doctors at such high regard. And we are, a lot of us are sheep. I'm a sheep to my wife, by the way, I'm freely admitting that, it works well for me. But my point here is, if every doctor came in and you were sick and said, hey, what are you eating? That whole narrative would change. All of a sudden, they'd be promoting healthier eating. And we wouldn't have to worry about so many other modalities and sicknesses because we'd have the support of our doctor. And they're the ones
that ultimately like I'll stay home, I'll be sick as a dog. But finally, there's a moment every once in a while I say, all right, I gotta go see a doctor. That's it, I can't do it. I can't do it anymore. And that's when I had the heart disease or that's when I got a knee where I need a meniscus looked at, you know, cause I can't, plant-based won't help me, otherwise I would do it. Okay, I would just stay plant-based, you know, I'd stay on course. But just think about if we could have a big enough voice where we made that type of change, that's what might make the biggest change in my.
Yeah, I mean, Dr. Michael Clapper is actually doing exactly what you just described. You know, and guess what? He's using my medical course material to try and sell it. And here's the problem. The problem is, is it's not being received. I mean, Michael Clapper is beautiful and a genius and a kind, good doctor. And he's like one of us. But I check in on it because I gave him the medical course material to promote and it's not being received. It's,
I'm excited about it because I spent two years trying to do it here in Michigan. It only got one school to make a change. Only one. So yeah, yeah. It's we've got to be a bigger influencer with the medical schools. Yeah, I mean, pharma, unfortunately, is dictating that a bit. All the medical schools, all the medical research is paid mostly by pharma. That is where they get their funds from. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them. It's a it's a in.
It's an entrenched system of money manipulating the narrative. And we have to overcome that. But speaking to individuals, the individual students, students don't have that investment yet. Doctors do. They get paid by the pharmaceutical companies. The researchers get paid by pharmaceuticals. Hospitals get paid by pharmaceuticals. They're all on the take. Pharmaceuticals only needed when they're sick people. So.
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There's, there's no impetus to change the system because everybody's profiting from the system, the sick care system to change. I think that like, yeah, Jeff, it's, it's like, there's no money in wellness. There's no money in health. I mean, that's why there's no broccoli industry. I mean, I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like lobbyists, but with that being said, uh, we got to pay the bills real quick. Uh,
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November 19th at six o'clock. It's 10 bucks and I'm going to cook with you. There'll be no fancy camera tricks, no editing. We're going to do it all together. So join us. Won't you. All right guys. So now let's get back to the show. Got me. It's a, I'm looking forward to seeing more about that Thanksgiving menu. You're popping out there. Oh yeah, dude. I I'm just going to say it. I don't care what anybody says. I make the best.
pumpkin pie. I'm just going to tell you. Anyway, well.
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I want to go back. I guess I'm, I'm in the healthcare business myself, primarily in the technology side of things, dealing with a lot of telemedicine aspects of it. So I see everything that you're talking about in the workflows that I help craft and create. But I do see that I have hope that as the government reveals more carrots and more sticks on certain things, as we drive towards outcome driven care, and value based care and
population health management kind of thing that we are going to shift the needle towards Looking at the outcomes of getting people to be healthy and avoiding some of those patterns So I see the government pushing on that stick it might be 20 years away It might be 50 years away a hundred years away, but I see us heading in the right direction on certain fronts So I'm hopeful but yeah Shane. Did you have something else? No, I think you know kind of
On that, it does make me wonder, because I'm not a big conspiracy theorist. I never have been. I mean, I got people in my family that, you know, are ready to dig bunkers and store weapons and stuff like that. Um, but you know, it's like, is polarizing as things have become over the last several years, regardless of where you lay on the political spectrum, the seeing how polarized we are, not just with.
politics and everything else that's going on, but I feel like it's like that in the plant-based world now, you know, it's like, it doesn't happen a lot, but you know, when a guy I know just lost a bunch of weight doing the intermittent fasting and does predominantly paleo. And I'm like, you know, when you go back to eating normal, you're going to gain all your weight back. Right. And he's like, well, what do I need to do? Eat like you. And I was like, yeah, that's what you need to do. You know, and it's, and so I do feel like there's, but I do feel like there's this.
I try not to be a cynical person, but you know, it's, it's kind of hard. And it's like, and you say that you see things moving in the right direction, Brian, but part of me is like, they want to sick. They want to sick. They want us like, I'm the one that I'm to the point now where I think there's a cure for cancer and they've got it buried in a mountain out in Colorado. You know, it's like, and so, and it's good to hear, and I hope that's the case, but it's, it's like, I would think. That. People that are getting well.
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Cause there's, I mean, it's like a funeral home. It's never going to go out of business. People are always going to suffer from sicknesses and things like that. But I would think what would garner more patients or whatever. I don't know. It just, it's, it's a struggle for me to believe that it's getting better because I do still sense that there is some hostility and trying to suppress. Truth. But if you say it is, and you're working in it, I have no reason not to trust you. And that, that's encouraging. Paul, there was something you want to, I'm sorry.
I definitely think they're heading in the right direction. But I also think the other thing is like, we're facing this baby boomer shortage of doctors and everything else. So like there's, there's just going to be a shortage of it, even if the government has the mandate for it. So, you know, Paul jump in here, you're in the medical system on as a patient side of it right now. Yeah. I mean, all I was going to say is it like, you know, when they started coming up with like when smoking was terrible for people, you know, it took, they say it took like 40, 50 years for
the truth to come out, you know, or something like that. And now like, you know, we've been waiting for, you know, 15 years since the China study, give or take a few years, and nothing, no one's refuted it. And you know, there hasn't been anything groundbreaking because it's still holding true, all the information. And I just wonder like, and again, I just think that if we could create a voice, you know, where we could use the power of social media and everything that goes with it.
and call out the farm, just call out the truth. This world's set up for sick people, the pharmaceuticals are doing this, the doctors and all the hospitals are making that. And at the end of the day, we just have to call, I think we just as a alliance, as a group, call it out, call the truth out and let people make their own choices. But we're just, we're not big enough to do it. Because we're just individual people.
telling individuals or small groups about what's going on or living it by example, but how many people do you really touch? You know in a year, you know, like I I'm trying to be out there all the time I don't touch even close to enough and I just don't have the time Like I don't have I have the patience not as much as I would like but it's like time, you know Like, you know, I don't want to wait another 10 more years and see more people suffer, you know I'm saying So why can't we just figure a way to pool everything?
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And get it out there and then we'll find out, but it's just, it's, it is, it's frustrating because too many people I care about are sick. Yeah. I mean, and I think about what Jeff said while ago, that's why I think when it comes to men, that some point I feel like, you know, like I said this on the last podcast, like the majority of my audience, 80 to 85, 88 to 94% are women. When I look at the analytics.
And women do moderation better. Women hear information better. Uh, you know, they're willing to sit and listen and take the notes. I think Jeff, it's kind of like what you said, like I'm, I'm can be a fairly confrontational person. And I think sometimes it's just us that have already come to this point and our lives have changed and saying, Hey dude, you know, getting in people's grill and going, okay, either change or die. That's, that's, that's your option. You know? And if, you know, and it's like, look, it's like smoking.
I mean, we really had to have, we really have to have the little thing on the side of the cigarette packs that says this could cause cancer. I mean, you're sucking tar into your lungs, you know? But so in the fact that it took 40, 50 years for people to get there, I get that. But I feel like, you know, it's like, we have so much misinformation when it comes to diet, when we, you know, it's like eat this amount of chicken or eat this, you know, and everybody has just fed this crap. You know? And so I think until for men, I just feel like if there are people in our lives.
I I'm Jeff. That's why I read it's like, I'm going to get your grill and just said, okay, you go do that because people will tell me, well, I'm just not going to change. Well, don't. And then when you got three stints put in when you're 45, you know, and then, you know, it's not because of your jeans. It's because it's, you know, your lifestyle. And so I do feel like there's a call that, and we got to stop doing stupid vegan things, it's like, yeah, let's protect the climate and do that, but stop gluing your hand to the highway and stop in traffic and
you know, because that's or whatever and throw in pain on pictures or whatever it is. I mean, it's that we, I feel like we, those are the ones getting all the attention. So I feel like we've got to do something to step up and, and be more vocal or, and I get it, you know, it costs money and everything, but I do feel like for men that I just feel like a confrontation is going, Hey man up, you know, just protect your family, you know, let's, or, you know, those you love or
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Quit killing yourself and being a drain on the system, you know? And okay. Now my, not your passion. Fire me. Like I want to, I want to get enough men together. We all chip in a dollar. We get a million vegan men chip in a dollar and we get our football commercial for room and eat plants. There you go. You know what I mean? Like that would be game changer. Well, guys, I, man, I feel like I could rant for another two hours. I hate that we got to go. I mean, I.
I mean, we need to come back. Maybe we can do a volume two of this or chapter two or something. But I mean, Brian's got a real job. He has to go get on a call. Oh, you know, with IT guys, you know, I know, man. Yeah. All right. They at least say they are, you know, Jeff, thanks so much for coming on, man. And just sharing your story. And I would like to, um,
Before we go, tell us about your products and your website where people can find you. And, um, and we'll definitely post some stuff in the show notes and everything, but, but tell us a little bit about your company before we go and your website and everything. Yeah. It's so I, you know, I've worked in for 35 years in the natural products industry and worked for some of the top companies, uh, in the industry, vitamin shop, whole foods, um, 24 hour fitness MRI BSN. So.
I work for some of the biggest companies in the industry, and I see a lot of good things that are going on and some not so good things going on. And most of the companies are marketing-based companies. And the way you make money is you build really cheap products and sell them for a higher price and advertise and convince everybody to buy your products. Well, that kind of ends up getting the customer the cheapest product so that the company can be more successful. So you're getting, you've got a system
degrades quality and rewards marketing. And I wanted to do something different. I wanted to put all the money into the quality of the products. So I created a company called Clean Machine. Clean Machine based on keeping this amazing machine that we're born into clean, free of drugs, free of animal products, and to show people what amazing results can come when you find the absolute best in nature.
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Ahi flower, the richest source of omega-3s of any plant source in the world. The Lemna product that we're coming out with, the number one superfood on the planet, higher in nutrient density than kale, spinach, spirulina, even moringa. I go out and find through the research these extraordinary plants, because we're such a place right now, 77% obesity and overweight.
77%. That's three out of every four people. That means three of us would be overweight or obese in this country. That's horrible. So we need extraordinary products to compensate for our health. So we do give back programs, as you can see with Food for Life Global. We've fed over 10,000 hungry children all over the world through our efforts through Food for Life Global. But we've got over
nine national awards for our product assortment. And that's what I want to do. It's my give back really. It's I'm passionate about helping people be the living example so they can inspire others to say, Hey, look, I accomplished this without drugs and without any animal products whatsoever. That's what, that's what we're about. Okay. And it's, and again, the website is clean machine online.com.
I do weekly podcasts, not competing with you guys, but every Thursday at 4 p.m. I cover all the latest research on why plant-based and exercise is very important to our overall health. So if you want the latest research that's just coming right out of the presses, I talk about them. I break down the science in the simple terms so that everybody can understand and follow along. And I always provide the links and the studies.
and the bias and all that kind of too, so that you can look at the studies and see the research for yourself and make sure it. Look, I'm out to empower people with information. Information that you can use to apply to your life. And for me, you know, as a son of a professor and a psychologist, that's what I want to do is give back, is make people feel stronger about their choices so they can make the best choices for their life and their family. Right. CleanMachineOnline.com, right? Very good. Yep.
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Check it out, check it out and check out the podcast, the podcast, clean machine as well. It's clean machine fit on Facebook or clean machine online at YouTube. All right. And Paul, your website for the plant based support group, www.pbnsg.org. And if you need some support, uh, we have both speaker events, culinary events, and 16 different specific support groups. And you could, for our membership is a whopping 20 bucks a month and you could.
Go to one event or go to 20 that we have every single month. Uh, and then soon we'll be announcing something bigger called the Sage circle Alliance. Uh, we will let you know when we're ready, but we're working on it. Excellent. And you got a nice collection of vegan chefs on there. So, well, you're one of them, buddy. Well, that's what I was getting to. Guys, thank you so much. It's great to laugh. It's great to rant and it's great to be here together for the calls. And.
Let's come back again and do it sooner rather than later. All right. Thank you guys. And thank you for joining us today for real minute plants. Thank you so much. You're having us. Thanks.