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Sustainable Beekeeping with Justin Orders on the Plants vs. Meat Podcast

Hey there, Plants vs. Meat fans! 🌱🐝

We’re buzzing with excitement about our latest podcast episode, where we dive deep into the fascinating world of bees, honey, and sustainable living. In this episode, our awesome host Bryan sits down with the incredible Justin Orders, the mastermind behind Queen's Orders Honey. If you’re curious about beekeeping, the environment, and ethical eating, this is an episode you won’t want to miss!

Justin Orders, the Beekeeper

Meet Justin Orders: The Bee Whisperer 🐝

Justin Orders has been beekeeping for six years and is the passionate owner of Queen's Orders Honey. With his wealth of knowledge and enthusiasm, Justin gives us an insider look into the world of bees and their vital role in our ecosystem. From his early days as a vegan to his current sustainable beekeeping practices, Justin’s journey is nothing short of inspiring.

From Vegan to Beekeeper: Justin’s Journey 🌿

Justin’s dietary journey is a fascinating one. Driven by environmental concerns, he spent years as a vegan and vegetarian before finding a balance that works for him today. Now, he describes himself as “half-vegan,” still incorporating many plant-based meals into his diet. Justin’s story is a testament to the importance of making ethical and environmentally conscious choices that align with our values.

The Importance of Bees: More Than Just Honey 🍯

Did you know that bees are responsible for pollinating a significant portion of the food we eat? Without bees, our food supply would be drastically affected, and our ecosystems would suffer. Justin explains the critical role bees play in agriculture, pollinating everything from fruits and vegetables to nuts and seeds. His insights shed light on why bees are so essential for our planet’s health.

Sustainable Beekeeping: A Model for Ethical Practices 🌍

Justin’s approach to beekeeping is all about sustainability and care. He contrasts his methods with large-scale commercial beekeepers, emphasizing the need for attentive care and organic treatments to ensure the health and well-being of the bees. By regularly monitoring his hives and maintaining a symbiotic relationship with the bees, Justin ensures that his practices are both ethical and environmentally friendly.

Environmental and Ethical Eating: A Thought-Provoking Discussion 🌱

Bryan and Justin delve into the environmental and ethical implications of our dietary choices. They discuss the impact of meat production on climate change and resource use, and the benefits of plant-based diets. The conversation also touches on the ethical considerations of beekeeping and honey production, providing valuable insights into how we can all contribute to a healthier planet.

Join the Conversation!

This episode of Plants vs. Meat is packed with valuable information and thought-provoking discussions. Whether you’re a seasoned beekeeper, a plant-based newbie, or just curious about sustainable living, there’s something in this episode for everyone. Justin’s passion for bees and commitment to ethical practices offer a refreshing perspective on how we can all make a positive impact.

Interested in beekeeping?

If you’re in the Charlotte, North Carolina area and interested in beekeeping or learning more about bees, Justin Orders is your go-to guy. He offers services such as beekeeping consultations, hive installations, and educational presentations for community groups, schools, and churches. You can reach out to Justin through his website,, and discover how you can support local beekeeping and enjoy the benefits of local honey.

Thank you for joining us on this journey. Stay tuned for more exciting episodes and insightful conversations on Plants vs. Meat. Until next time, keep buzzing and stay curious!

Listen to the full episode here and don’t forget to subscribe to Plants vs. Meat on your favorite podcast platform! >Podcast Episode’s Transcript 

Please understand that a transcription service provided the transcript below. It undoubtedly contains errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions.

Bryan (00:00.865)

Hello everybody. Welcome to Plants vs. Meat, the podcast. I'm your host Brian. And today we are joined by Justin Orders. He is owner of the Queen's Orders Honey. It is in its sixth year, I think, right? Welcome to the show, Justin. Thanks for being here.

Justin Orders (00:21.933)

Thanks, Brian. Glad to be here.

Bryan (00:23.905)

But you're in your sixth year of beekeeping. Is that correct?

Justin Orders (00:26.573)

Six years of re -keeping, correct. Not, uh, three years of Queen Zora's Honey.

Bryan (00:32.705)

And so that is awesome. And I know we've gotten to know each other a little bit because I do have some bees in my backyard trying to help the bees make their comeback and pollinate in my little neck of the woods here. So I really appreciate all your help in helping me do that. And you are a former vegan as well. We got to get you back into that bandwagon.

Justin Orders (00:55.044)

Yeah, I was vegan for two or three years vegetarian just like on and off for for probably about a decade honestly Looking back on it Yeah, and I'm still today. I am what I'd like to call like half vegan like I've got my Vegan shake my my morning shake with me. I still eat a lot of tofu since I did it for so long It's just a lot of those

Bryan (01:05.537)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (01:25.629)

ways to still kind of stick with me and I resonate with me, but I do eat meat. There's really few things. I try not to eat a whole lot of red meat, cows and pigs for a variety of reasons, try to stick with poultry and fish. But even still, if it's there on the dinner table at someone's house, I'm probably, and that's like the only thing in there, I'm usually going to eat it. So yeah.

Bryan (01:41.247)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (01:52.449)

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, you know, on this show, we're going to try and unpack a couple of things for a few minutes each on that front, but it's, to me, it's curious. Like, um, I want to, let's, let's talk through these couple of topics first. And then I really want to unpack the bee thing. Cause I know that's controversial in the vegan world to a degree, but I want to get your perspective on it also from, from the, the health aspects of it. Right. So like, you know, I don't know, like me, I grew up,

eating meat and everything else and whatever 14, 15 years ago went down this plant based journey. Uh, and I don't think I've ever looked back, but tell us a little bit about your sort of dietary journey growing up and what you saw was some of the good and bad health aspects of it.

Justin Orders (02:39.625)

Oh yeah, so growing up, very healthy meals. My mom would always be like, you know, protein, carbs, vegetable. Every single dinner was that sort of routine and that still kind of stuck with me today. I didn't see any like health issues. I was a little chunkier when I was younger, but that, you know, went away when I had my first liver. Yeah, it's, you know, as soon as I shot at the six foot.

Bryan (02:49.855)


Bryan (03:02.529)

We all were. Yeah.

Justin Orders (03:10.505)

Um, but yeah, no, no real health concerns. Um, the, my, I guess the reason for going vegan and vegetarian was the main issue was environmental, as you know, meat keeper. That's what drove a lot of decisions in my life was, um, the effects of, of raising cattle and climate change and meat baning. And just, there's so many things, transportation, the use of land, use of water.

All those things really drove my decision to help out. There were, of moral issues. And then I'm maybe getting ahead of myself here for the sobbing bit.

Bryan (03:53.121)

No, no, that's okay. Like, we focus on the health pieces of it, right? Like, no, that's, that's okay. Like what's the, what's, what do you find like, you know, as a person who's tried a bunch of different diets, it seems like, you know, kind of a thing. And so you went down the vegetarian slash vegan path to a degree and then, and then went back to, because of just, I want to focus on the health side of it really. So like, what, what did you feel like?

Justin Orders (03:56.808)

Okay, sorry. Yeah.

Justin Orders (04:19.782)


Bryan (04:22.049)

you know, on different diets, you felt like healthier in one aspect or more energy or clarity of mind or anything like that. Like,

Justin Orders (04:31.207)

Yes, so veganism, I was running on all cylinders. I was doing three day workouts, like it was yoga, working out, going for runs. This was during the pandemic actually where I just quit my job and man, I look back at that as like that, that's where I'd like to be again. So very much selling it for those reasons.

Bryan (04:55.203)


Justin Orders (05:01.35)

The one difficult part was I almost had too much energy. Like I had major sleep difficulties. I could not go to sleep because I wasn't well enough fortified. I would even like, you know, wake up in the middle of the night and have like a protein shake with an organ protein shake and that would help me go to sleep. And maybe it was doing too much, but that was definitely a concern. And looking back on those pictures, I...

Bryan (05:10.985)


Bryan (05:21.601)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (05:30.181)

Maybe it wasn't working out too much, but I was very skinny. Like I'm six foot and I was one, I think the skinniest I was was like 175, 170. I'm now around 200 and I've stayed at that weight. But I look back to those papers like, ugh. I mean, that was fine. I I, the trade off was, I would say worthwhile, but same time it's like, I may not have, if I was still like that, I may not be the healthiest person. And that's not, that's not indicative.

that's not a dedication against veganism necessarily maybe just the way I was doing it but I know people can do it healthily but for me it just was like hmm maybe something wasn't quite right.

Bryan (06:11.233)

Yeah. And it's, it's interesting because like, you know, there's good and bad ways to do every diet, I think. So that that's for sure. But like, you know, the, the stuff that you need to help unwind at night, whether it's, you know, removing the screen time or, you know, the magnesium or whatever it is that helps you get to sleep, but like a, a good belly full of protein in some fashion, shape or form helps you get some sleep as well when you feel content and satisfied. So whether that's the.

Justin Orders (06:39.396)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (06:41.281)

the steak or the thing of nuts or edamame or something like something like that, Phil, like makes you feel more satiated on that front. Do you feel like from the health aspects of it, did you have you gotten your blood test done or given blood or something like I gave I give blood quite often. So I constantly see my cholesterol number kind of a thing. Like, did you see any fluctuations in any any other health aspects as you were on various diets?

Justin Orders (06:55.062)


Justin Orders (07:02.198)


Justin Orders (07:10.015)

Yeah, I remember the one thing that helped the most was just what I talked about. I wasn't getting enough protein. And I know that's a common thing that's echoed amongst a lot of former vegans and whatnot, but I remember seeing that. And it wasn't significantly low, like what we used to think about that. But I just remember looking at everything was normal, cholesterol, everything, everything, everything was normal. And then I saw protein. I was like, oh, it's a little bit low. So that's really, I haven't.

Bryan (07:17.985)

Mm -hmm.


Bryan (07:36.895)


Justin Orders (07:40.483)

I haven't since gotten my blood test drawn to see how it compares, but I definitely remember that for sure.

Bryan (07:46.881)

Yeah. And it's, it's interesting because I feel like there's still a strong protein myth out there to a degree. I think we need less protein than the many people think we do. But at the same time, I do think if you just eat a wide variety of foods, like your, your body's really good at producing protein, it'll combine X, Y, Z together to make the protein. So as long as you're giving it the building blocks, the amino acids, it'll, it will do a pretty good job on that, but.

Justin Orders (07:56.161)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (08:07.338)


Bryan (08:16.321)

But you're right. I mean, definitely people struggle with that or feel like, I feel like without the meat, then they're going to not get the protein that they need kind of a thing. But, but it is, it is something, it's something people need to think about and, you know, check with their doctors or whatever before they embark on that kind of a diet. But so yeah, I appreciate you unpacking that a little bit for me. I mean, the two other categories that I want to talk about are probably the ones that are probably very much more passionate for, for you and especially for me too.

Justin Orders (08:25.012)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (08:32.866)


Bryan (08:45.921)

But like the environmental impact, right? Like if we talk about that for a little bit, you know, I think I just saw something by fork ranger, um, talking about how the total weight of all humans on the planet is, I don't know, whatever the number was, 1 billion, let's just say, or something. And then if you added up all the cows on the planet, it's like one and a half times the total weight of all humans. Like, you know, but.

Justin Orders (09:11.327)


Bryan (09:12.929)

Not everybody's even has the privilege to eat the cows, but like we're basically killing all of those cows every couple of years and replacing them. So like the massive amount of, of environmental stuff on just that red meat section, the pigs and the chicken were much, much lighter, obviously, but that, that was a really interesting infographic, but talk to me about the environmental side of, of diet and eating and then looping the bees a little bit.

Justin Orders (09:20.783)


Justin Orders (09:42.143)

Yeah, so like you just said, it seems insane that we have a system that we can produce as much beef as we do. Like, mean, look at McDonald's, look at all these places that have burgers at it. I mean, it doesn't make sense, but it does make sense that we would need this much beef, this much land, this much water. Again, that then, of course,

creates methane from the gas of the cows. Everyone knows this. That's, I think, 16 times more of a greenhouse gas than that of, and I may be wrong, but that may be higher. I'm not really sure. Some incrementally larger amount of greenhouse gas than that of CO2. It's pretty insane to me that that is something that we...

Bryan (10:25.153)


Bryan (10:32.641)


Justin Orders (10:41.406)

We just think it's fine. You know, you can get a burger. There's like every restaurant around here. I can go get a burger this morning. Um, and for what cows are sorry for pennies. Yeah. And for what cows are these just, yeah, they take so much resources, so much food, so much water. Um, that's why it's still like what, what we try to do now, my partner and I, she's, she's not vegan.

Bryan (10:43.775)


Bryan (10:50.497)

For pennies. For pennies, it's so cost effective. Yeah.

Justin Orders (11:10.014)

and not putting this all on her at all, like, but getting in this relationship, she was, I was vegan and then she was not. And it just like slowly got myself eating more meat. Cause it just like, that's on the table tonight. We're going on to eat and there's no, they're just gonna have literally salad for you tonight. And I was just, I got so tired of that, that I was like, okay, sure. But we do try to buy from sources that, you know, are humanely good and justified.

Bryan (11:11.777)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (11:18.721)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Justin Orders (11:39.837)

through the practice, but whatever, but it's still kind of weird to be like, okay, well, why do I need to eat this right now? Why do I need to eat this beef? Like, it just doesn't, still doesn't make sense to me. So I just, again, that's, I try to stay away from that. Casually dipping my feet in there even once, but we're actually having a guest over for tonight with burgers. This is like the third time.

Bryan (11:46.879)


Bryan (11:57.985)

The new Impossible Burger just came out, like you've gotta try that one, like I strongly encourage you.

Justin Orders (12:05.676)

We do we do I bought I don't know side note on there's um at Costco right now They have them possible chicken nuggets right now on sale for like it's like $11 for a two pound bag. I bought I think like 12 bags They didn't have any cap on how many you can buy. So I'm just like these are great I we both eat a ton of them too. So yeah, I Right. I I don't really have an excuse, but it's just nice

Bryan (12:14.817)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (12:22.529)

That's awesome. Loading up.

Bryan (12:32.385)

I, but it's, it's true. Cause like, I do see, I mean, the government clearly subsidizes, you know, all the farming industry, you know what I mean? To help make sure that food security in the United States is addressed. And I strongly support food security. I do not want people to not be able to eat, you know, but I want them to eat healthier. So I do wish the government helped push and subsidize things more in.

Justin Orders (12:39.036)


Justin Orders (12:45.232)

Thank you.

Justin Orders (12:51.082)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (13:01.217)

in the healthier food realm kind of a thing. But you and I, I think both are very aware that a good portion of the food that we grow goes to feeding the pigs and the cows and the chickens, just so we can get that food on that front. But yeah, I do see, I think in the next five years, you will see a shift of plant -based foods coming down in price that beats the meat price. And I just see the meat prices going up, but we'll see how that plays out for sure.

Justin Orders (13:02.779)


Justin Orders (13:10.971)


Justin Orders (13:27.643)


Yeah, fingers crossed. That sounds awesome.

Bryan (13:31.521)

Um, but talk to me like, uh, on the environmental side of it, like, you know, hit us with some of those beef facts because like the bees are crucial. Like there's, there's a couple of things that I'm worried about that. I mean, like, well, I wish we didn't eat, uh, cows as much as we do, especially in America kind of a thing. Like I see, I see a natural course of evolution there that we will.

stop some subsidies, the meat, alternative meat proteins will get cheaper. Like I can see a path towards removing cows or drastically reducing them. I'm very much so concerned about fish. There doesn't seem to be any worldwide regulations on fish. And I think we're going to remove almost all living animals from the ocean in the next 30 years. And then I'm also concerned about just.

Justin Orders (14:07.834)

Hmm. Yeah.

Justin Orders (14:19.736)


Bryan (14:25.793)

you know, the bees, like you and I have had some deep conversations about bees and pollination and how important they are to sustaining life on this planet. So hit us with some of that wisdom on the bees and their environmental impact.

Justin Orders (14:39.865)

Yeah, because my, my, I really love insects. I mean, that's why I got into bees in the first place. And I, and I do think that insects have a very, not just for pollination, but even as a food source, I know that's probably like too fringe or whatever, but like, you know, cricket protein is a thing and I hope it becomes more of a thing in the years to come. Cause I think it's a very viable. It's speaking of environmental impact. I know the tangent again, the, the.

In order to produce cricket protein, it is like the most beneficial, or the cross analysis of like water to food to protein is like better than pretty much anything there is out there. Of course, not a lot of people want to eat crickets. I understand that. It doesn't taste great, but it is a much better source of protein and not environmentally impactful. You can raise them anywhere really. Anyway, bees...

Bryan (15:21.089)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Justin Orders (15:37.417)

Of course, very important for our agricultural system. Vegan, vegetarian, carnivore, whatever maybe you're going to need them. Honey bees specifically produce, they save a third to a quarter of the food on your dinner plate each night. Vegetables, watermelon, squash, blueberries, almonds, tomatoes, cucumbers.

you know, all these things, the way we produce them in America and across the globe, we need lots of honey bees shipped into these agricultural sites in order to pollinate them. That's just the way it works. Without them, we are in trouble. And the bees have been struggling. And I'm talking bees, collectively, not honey bees, native bees, bubble bees, sweat bees, even wasps and neologets. We don't look at them as pollinators, but they actually are very significant part of.

pollinators. They've been struggling with a variety of things for the last couple decades. Invasive pests, viruses, lack of resources, i .e. losing their habitat, and of course climate change are all impacting the way they're impacting other species of animals that are important to us. So...

Yeah, they're incredibly, incredibly important to our agricultural system and just our biodiversity and our ecosystems. If we don't have the flowers, if the flowers that are not pollinated due to them, they're going to die. They're not going to be able to spread, thus leading to a greater impact to other animals, other pollinators, whatever it may be that feed on them. And yeah, it's going to be a very depressing world. Not only...

for our stomachs, but also for our wellbeing if we do not have bees in our environment anymore.

Bryan (17:37.537)

Yeah. And it's, and it's an interesting thing because I feel like bees are a very controversial topic in the vegan, in the vegan plant based community to a degree. But like if we're sticking with the environmental side of this, like what do you see as the...

Justin Orders (17:44.563)


Bryan (17:54.657)

the sustainable way for the bees. Because I feel like what you're doing is the best way possible in my mind. You're the local beekeeper. You're here in the Charlotte, North Carolina area. You are trying to make sure that everybody that wants to have a hive nearby can have one and you can service it. And I find the line of work for...

Justin Orders (18:01.843)


Bryan (18:15.969)

what you're doing with the bees is admirable on all of those levels. But there are like the commercial bee farmers that I feel like start out in Texas with their thousand hives and let them set up for two, three weeks. And then they move them a hundred miles north and they just keep moving them as the pollination needs to happen. And like, I just feel like that is, I don't know, almost the torture of the bees, but like, how, what do you see as the right way to, to have the bees be part of our ecosystem?

Justin Orders (18:25.618)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (18:46.529)

is controlled by humans or controlled in a sustainable, ethical, you know, realistic way.

Justin Orders (18:52.691)

Right. I mean, it's like everything, right? I mean, naturally, there are not 600 beehives next to one another in a field, but there's also not a million cucumber plants in the field either. So we've we've done all this stuff to ourselves, to our agricultural system, and it's had negative consequences. That's not what I'm doing. That's not what I'm selling, obviously. And thank you for that.

Bryan (19:09.569)


Justin Orders (19:22.706)

introduction to it can be done sustainably. It can be done with practices where, you know, my practice is I'm constantly in the highs making sure that everything's okay. You know, a lot of these large scale beekeepers, commercial beekeepers, they have, you know, hundreds and hundreds of hives. They cannot look at every single hive and make sure that's

that is doing well and you know what comes with that? Viruses that they don't, they're like, where do these come from? And that affects all their bees and then spreads all throughout the country and to other native bees too that are then impacted by that. So yeah, just being like attentive to your bees because they are actually, it's weird that we call them a domesticated or like we will call them livestock because they're actually wild animals.

Bryan (19:58.505)

Yeah. Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (20:16.368)

Like they have no fealty to us. Like if they want to swarm, they're going to swarm and they're going to leave and say, buy my bees, you know, maybe try and catch them. But that's, that's not really like, you know, if they don't want to. Yeah. Like there's a mutualistic relationship between the two. It's not like I go out and I pet my bees and they enjoy that. It's like, I take care of them and I get the feeling that they understand that. Like I'm there for the good. They don't stay me as much. So that's kind of where I'm getting that from. But.

Bryan (20:16.577)


Bryan (20:26.739)

It's not like a pet cat or a cow. Right?

Bryan (20:45.921)


Justin Orders (20:46.166)

At any rate, yeah, they're they're extremely like they're just they're I'm kind of giving them room and board and in return I Get their services. I do get their honey and it's That just being mindful of the work that they do and the importance of them in the environment and not you know I I don't get too great big for my who I am like I'm not like I'm not able to

your high for like two months in the middle of spring, I shouldn't be taking care of you. I shouldn't, I, someone else can do that because like, yeah, that's, I don't want to become that person. Um, I don't want to become, you know, too, too far out. And yeah, it's, it's, there's ways of doing it that are very sustainable. I know a lot of people that have really good practices, um, treating your bees with, I treat them with organic chemicals. Um,

And it does really well for me, but you just got to make sure you're taking those steps.

Bryan (21:46.567)

Yeah, yeah, I agree and it's what what is the fact like without the bees, you know humanity would be dead in two three years like I mean What's the there's yeah?

Justin Orders (21:55.278)

So this is a funny, this is a funny anecdote. So Albert Einstein is quoted for saying that if when the bees die, humanity will die in four years. There's actually no evidence of Albert Einstein saying this. And you'll even look, if you look this up online, it will be like the graphic of Albert Einstein with his like noble looking.

Posture and then the quote beside him and it's like there's actually no one There's really no validity to that statement and also Albert Einstein did say it so there is validity to what they're saying like if all the bees were to die Tomorrow for some strange reason We would not I can't really give a number on it. We would not survive for You know, we would be it would be very bad for a while

Bryan (22:46.983)

Big trouble.

Justin Orders (22:51.765)

Humans can't, I mean humans have proven that they can pollinate plants. Like I know I heard somewhere in China they were dealing with the bee crisis and you would go with like a little paint brush and paint plant, paint each flower. But it's incredibly painstaking, tedious job and we really can't do it the same way that bees do. So we would be screwed for sure. I don't know how long it would take for us to completely...

um crumble.

Bryan (23:22.919)

We would probably figure out some weird way to survive. I mean, I have a hydroponic garden and I have done the paintbrush thing inside the house to get some of my flowers to do their magic. So, so yeah, but you know, it's not something I would wish on anybody to go through a field of a thousand cucumber plants with a paint brush. Um, so yeah. Well, I appreciate you helping dispel that myth. Um, unlike the, the ethical side of it, you know, like,

Justin Orders (23:26.125)

Yeah. Sure.

Justin Orders (23:37.547)


Yeah, those would be very expensive cucumbers.

Bryan (23:52.903)

I know you do collect the honey on that front. And I know, I believe you and I've had that conversation. Like I want you to make sure when you do collect the honey from my hive that you leave more than enough for them to get through the winter on that front. But I think it's important to almost dispel some myths about the life cycle of bees. Cause I know it's been an eye -opening experience for me in my backyard just to...

Justin Orders (24:04.554)


Bryan (24:17.607)

see how in the summertime there's probably 15 ,000 bees in my hive, but in the wintertime it might be down to a thousand or two thousand. And I didn't realize this, but the bees only live a month, something like that. Like hit us with some of the bee facts if you could.

Justin Orders (24:33.079)

Yes, so the bees actually live generally um we call them there's actually two versions of bees here There's summer bees and there's winter bees Summer bees the bees you generally see because you're not really seeing a whole lot of bees in the and the the winter I'm not sure be here like myself those the summer bees live about two months winter bees They almost have like superpowers compared to the summer bees. They can live up to six months so that they're winter hardy

Bryan (24:41.831)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (24:58.873)


Justin Orders (25:01.898)

And the honey, so honey bees are very unique in that they produce a ton of honey. Like a single hive can produce 20 to 40, maybe even 50 pounds depending on how good the year is. So incredible amount of honey and that honey is meant to supply them the warmth. Think of it as like the wood for a wood stove to keep the house warm.

Bryan (25:09.775)


Justin Orders (25:28.425)

during the winter time. They eat the honey, it gives them an incredible boost of energy. They're then able to produce heat from the honey that then warms the colony. Warms will be called the cluster, the brood cluster, where they have baby bees, the queens at the center of that as well. It keeps that hive warm. They're not really in hibernation, they're more just like dormant. They're not...

doing a whole lot, especially if it's super cold outside. But if you do get a sunny day, you'll see them going out and foraging for whatever's in bloom in the middle of January, which isn't much, but something. And so I know there's a lot of talk about is beekeeping vegan? And I'm maybe not necessarily getting to that conversation, but what I would like to address is...

Bryan (25:51.943)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (25:59.015)


Justin Orders (26:18.472)

The bees, while they need the honey in order to survive through the winter, they generally make way too much honey. It's like, I did this hive, this last year I took this hive, they made a ton of honey. Like, I want to say maybe 30, 40 pounds. And I just let them have all of it. And I just said, you know, let me see what happens. Let me see how much honey they're going to eat throughout the winter. I actually came back a couple of weeks ago.

Now is the time where there's actually a nectar flow, meaning they're bringing in honey. Not a whole lot, but I was able to see how much honey they'd eaten of the hive. And I would say it was about half, half of, and this is a very like ballpark estimate. I wish I had a scale to actually measure that out, but it was about half of what they produced in the summer last year. So while, you know, taking every drop of honey that the bees produce is for sure,

Conflict because then you know you would have to feed them something else to supplement the food that they that you've taken It's again they make so much that it's it's it's it's okay if you're if you're like wait Is are we killing bees in the process of taking their honey? Yes, if you're buying it from a place you don't trust you don't support them if you just from the grocery store or Costco or whatever

Bryan (27:32.359)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (27:45.35)

and you don't know who the beekeeper is, yeah, that may be something you want to worry about. But if it's from a source local to you that you, and by the way, you should be buying local honey for the antihistamine purposes. We should all know that by now. It's an amazing cure to seasonal allergies. But you should be able to talk, just like if you're buying meat, just like we do when we go buy meat from places, we want to know who made it. We want to know it came from a source that we're like, okay.

I like what this guy's talking about, girl, whomever. And, you know, this seems to be something that's sustainable and can be done. Maybe a little more expensive than when you get it at grocery store. You should probably come to expect that. But it's worthwhile to do that because we need the bees for pollination. The byproduct of that is the honey. So we could just let the bees have all the honey.

But I think it's nice to enjoy in this magical substance that they create, that they get from flowers. It is incredible. And to just let that sit for the bees to have, which they don't eat all of it, that doesn't kind of make sense to me. So.

Bryan (28:52.167)


Bryan (29:01.767)

Yeah. No, I think you unpacked it. I think you unpacked it really, really well. I do. I do think, you know, finding that symbiotic relationship. I mean, obviously we have a gazillion bacteria in our body and we need yeast to make bread and all those kinds of things. So you can go down certain paths there as far as you want, but, uh,

the exploitation of the animals. Like I wish, I wish, you know, if humans hadn't dominated this planet as much as we have, then there would probably just be more natural bees on that front. So I do think we need to have, we need to have people like you that are helping to bring the bees back into the neighborhoods and stuff. And I think my answer to that, that farm, industrial farming thing is everybody needs to learn how to garden again. Like, you know, like I'm setting.

Justin Orders (29:35.26)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (29:50.518)

Yeah. Yeah, I saw.

Bryan (29:54.183)

garden beds right now and we're going to have a ton of cucumbers, tomatoes. And so, you know, I'm really excited. Like I don't think I'll produce all of my food. I'm still going to get some at the grocery store, but like, I don't really ever go out for lettuce anymore because I've got the hydroponic garden growing probably 15 varieties of lettuce inside. So I can just grab my lettuce, but like we have to get back to some more sustainable practices. Like, like we did back in the Oregon trail days, I guess, you know what I mean? Where we grew.

Justin Orders (30:10.499)

Thank you

Justin Orders (30:21.835)


Bryan (30:22.471)

we grew it or we didn't eat it kind of a thing. You didn't grow enough potatoes this year, you don't get potatoes kind of a thing. So I think there's something to that that we could do to help the bees on that front. But I do like the question for me, you know, you've mentioned this a couple of times during our chat is, is the humane, the humane aspects of, of certain things. Like I think the symbiotic relationship with the bees is one that I'm comfortable with and stuff.

Justin Orders (30:27.649)

Mm -hmm.


Bryan (30:52.647)

you said, you know, hey, Brian, here is this beautiful pig or cow, like, go ahead and if you kill it, then you can eat it kind of a thing. Like, the humane, like, is there a humane way to kill the animals? And some, you know, I'm glad that it was grass fed and raised in a beautiful pasture with sunshine all day long, and it got to live the two or three years that it got to before it reached maturity for slaughter. But like, is there what do you what how do you help you know, have

Justin Orders (31:00.416)


Justin Orders (31:07.522)


Justin Orders (31:20.052)


Bryan (31:20.615)

been a vegan in the past and how do you address the ending of the life portion of that piece of it, just on the ethical side.

Justin Orders (31:30.497)

Um, yeah, my opinion on that may be a little controversial. Um, I, uh, good. Um, so humans, um, I believe are, I wouldn't say this is exactly humans were born to kill.

Bryan (31:33.945)

That's what this show is all about, so bring it on.

Bryan (31:49.159)

We're the dominant ones on the planet, so we can kill anything we want, you know?

Justin Orders (31:55.808)

I like to produce meat, not force kill one another, though we've, I'm not saying that's where it's like. But I mean, like really, like, if you look at the primates that we come from, they were like a warring colony. Like they were not like these, like, we could have came from the ones that just ate.

the fruits on the trees, but once those fruits started to become harder and harder to get to, we had to war with other clans of primates, and that's what's produced us, these just angry, hostile creatures. And I'm not saying like we can't get back to that, of course we can, we do have that within us, but at the same time, this is a long way of saying I sort of don't care that...

the animals are getting killed anymore. Of course, I don't want them to suffer their entire existence, but if they live a good life, cage -free, in an environment that is good, and what I deem nice, I know that's not what everyone's opinions are, I think that's fine for them to die for our food. And...

Bryan (33:14.139)


Justin Orders (33:18.943)

Yeah, that I would say on the list of things that I care about for the, you know, as far as veganism, that is one of the least things that I'm into. Yeah.

Bryan (33:20.487)


Bryan (33:32.807)

And it's, it's interesting cause like I, I can see that point of view and, but like the price of that particular kind of meat is probably $200 a pound realistically, right? You know what I mean? Like 95 % of the meat that is produced is unfortunately the tortured souls throughout their whole life in the factory farms that we've seen in the video. So like it is like if.

Justin Orders (33:36.164)


Justin Orders (33:44.118)

Yeah, right.

Bryan (33:58.407)

If every piece of meat you could see, okay, this burger today is, is Bob, Cow Bob. And it was sourced and he lived 3 .5 years in a beautiful pasture. Like if you could know that every time you ate it, um, that then I think it would be more ethically justifiable to a degree. But, but yeah, I'm with you, but like it is interesting. Like I do agree with you. We are probably more of these warring primates.

Justin Orders (34:02.073)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (34:22.951)

But you pointed out that the gorillas and the apes are some of the strongest animals on the planet, but they are also plant based. They are eating the fruits and vegetables and nuts and maybe the occasional cricket, like you said, kind of a thing. But for the most part, they are plant based. So I do hope we get back to a more plant based, peaceful society. This has been an awesome conversation with you, Justin. I really, really appreciate your time and your

Justin Orders (34:31.205)

Mm -hmm.

Justin Orders (34:38.045)

Ha ha ha ha.

Justin Orders (34:43.141)

Mm -hmm.

Bryan (34:52.103)

willingness to come and have this more difficult conversation with me on plants versus meat. Tell us what is your website one more time? How can people get in touch to learn more about the bees? And if you're in the Charlotte area, I can't say enough awesome things about Justin and his services as a beekeeper, bee removal, whatever your problem is with the bees, he can help you. How do we get in touch Justin?

Justin Orders (35:03.376)

Yeah, thank you again for having me I really like this discussion It honestly and and what I hoped it would do is bring me closer to like oh, this is why I was vegan And it really has I don't think I'm gonna go

full vegan after this, but I will do a better job too, because I do align with it a lot. So thank you for inviting me to this. I've learned a lot about myself and just why I make decisions I do. So, greenzorder20 .com. I'm taking on new clients that people want. Bees in their backyard want to learn about bees. What makes them so awesome.

Bryan (35:26.909)

That's awesome.

Justin Orders (35:51.771)

This is a great time to start. Maybe you don't, maybe you just want to like have like a presentation. I do that too. I come to community groups, churches, schools, whatever. I bring an observation hive where you can actually see the bees and actually maybe you will see the queen if you're lucky. And so anything honeybee related, I love these little creatures. So even if you just have a question, please reach out to me. I'd be happy to answer that.

Bryan (35:54.035)


Justin Orders (36:21.69)


Bryan (36:22.535)

That is all the time we have for this episode of Plants vs. Meat. So figure out what your moral values are, people. Go out and stand up for them. Hold them true to your heart. And you can be some of the change you wish to see in the world. So thanks again, everybody. Have a great day.


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