Dr. Joanne Kong & Bülent Güneralp: Music, Compassion & the Spiritual Journey to Veganism

What if going vegan was more than a diet—it was a spiritual awakening?

In this heart-centered episode of The Glen Merzer Show, Glen welcomes Dr. Joanne Kong, an acclaimed musician and animal rights advocate, and Bülent Güneralp, a vegan artist and spiritual voice, for a powerful discussion about compassion, consciousness, and plant-based living.

“It’s all about compassion,” says Dr. Kong, who was first moved by a book on animal rights that shifted her worldview—and her plate. Bülent, inspired by fitness and health literature, soon realized, “Humans are herbivores.” Together, they emphasize that veganism isn’t just about personal health—it’s about aligning our values with our actions, creating harmony between thought, word, and deed.

The episode dives deep into how cultural conditioning masks the truth about food, how the media desensitizes us to animal suffering, and how music and performance can serve as powerful tools for awakening. “Love is the answer. Love is the solution,” Bülent shares, reflecting their shared belief that veganism is a vibration of peace.

From managing family dynamics to confronting societal dogma, Joanne and Bülent remind us that the most effective form of advocacy is living by example: “We can be the most positive advocates,” says Dr. Kong.

🎧 Listen now to explore how food, art, and compassion can change not only your health—but your heart.

📌 Watch the episode here: A Conversation with Dr. Joanne Kong and Bülent Güneralp

 Listen to our other podcasts:

DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here:

Here's the transcript: A Conversation with Dr. Joanne Kong and Bülent Güneralp

Welcome to the Glen Merzer show. can find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You could find us on YouTube and please remember to subscribe. And you could find us at RealMenEatPlants.com. Today we have something new. Two guests at the same time. One coming from the West Coast, one coming from the East Coast, and they are friends and collaborators. Joanne Kong is a renowned author.

animal advocate, public speaker, and classical pianist. She is author of If You've Ever Loved an Animal, Go Vegan. And she is the editor of this wonderful volume called Vegan Voices. She's also an award-winning classical pianist and faculty member at the University of Richmond. And before I say hi to her, I'll introduce our other guests.

I hope I get his last name right. Bulent Gunarap is PETA Prime's most beautiful vegan over 50. So, you know, frankly, he was invited here for his looks. And he's also an opera singer who has transformed from being a tenor to being a baritone. And he's an athlete who has built

remarkable muscles with his own system of body weight training, not using weights or a gym. So Joanne and Bulent, welcome to the show. Hi Glenn. So glad to be here with you today. Well, it's so good to see both of you and to try this experiment of three vegans talking. That's what we'll call this show, three vegans talking.

So Joanne, let's start with you. What is your journey to veganism? It involves a book, doesn't it? Yes, it does. So when I was living in Texas, of all places, that's where I first went vegetarian because one day my husband, Paul, brought a book home called Animal Factories written by Jim Mason and Peter Singer. It came out, I think, very early in the 80s.

RMEP Podcast (02:28.682)

a thin book, black and white pictures, and it told the truth of what happens to animals. And like a lot of people, and I mentioned this in my speeches and talks, I had never even thought of this. So we both read the book. The next day, we decided we're leaving animals off of our plate. So I think it's wonderful because I'm a college professor. of course I was inspired by a book.

So that was really the beginning of my journey. So that was like over 30 years ago. And I've been vegan for about 10 to 11 years now. And to me, it's all about compassion. It's all about the animals. And for all of us, human animals and animals, the goal is what I call compassionate oneness.

where we see ourselves and all others. So in a nutshell, that's where my advocacy stems from. OK, now let's see how different the lens journey is. Len, what what was your reason for going vegan?

I became first a vegetarian in 1996 when my mother gave me a book about vegetarianism. I had no idea about veganism back then and I was living in Istanbul, Turkey. And I came to the US in 1998, still no idea about veganism. I started seeing around campaigns, PETA campaigns and this,

idea of veganism and it started to click. I wasn't aware of the animal suffering involved in their industry, etc. Those industries, I used to think that their products are like the fruit of the tree. It doesn't harm anything. Unfortunately, that is not the case overall.

RMEP Podcast (04:41.462)

So in 2011, I discovered Brendan Brezier's Thrive Diet, Canadian athletes, Ironman triathletes. And the moment I read that, I said, that's it. And everything started to change. My energy,

levels, you know, increasing overall and feeling better in every way because you can mental and spiritually. So. That that's the basic picture, vegetarianism, veganism, and then going through the difference, let's say stages of veganism. Right. Or vegan diet, let's say. Well, you both went vegetarian before going vegan, and so did I. And I have a feeling so did the majority of vegans in the world.

Joanne, when you went first vegetarian and later vegan after reading Peter Seeger's book,

Were you worried at all, since you weren't doing it for health reasons, were you worried at all that there might be a negative health consequence? You were just doing it for the animals. And then were you delighted and surprised as you found out about the health attributes of a vegan diet? You know, that's an interesting question, because when I first went vegetarian, the last thing on my mind was health. It was all about the animals. And then

you know, maybe half a year in, I realized that I was feeling better. wasn't getting sick as much. So it's kind of like the compassionate health. It's like your outlook on the world that really ties in with your physical being too. And it's interesting because I've come across a lot of vegetarians who go vegan and somehow when their health improves and they are no longer

RMEP Podcast (06:50.382)

complicit in the suffering inflicted on the animals. It's almost like this enables a part of their awareness and consciousness to be aware and to be open that there's a higher purpose. So I think starting out for health reasons, which many people do, that's just the beginning of the journey. And then it opens up your soul to realize there's so much more.

about the connections between animals and humans. So for me with the good health, that was just like a side benefit. And of course, I'm glad to say that for instance, in my university job here, I've had this job where I teach music for about 25 years. And during the whole time, actually the whole time I've been working here,

And I've been both vegetarian and vegan. I've never taken a sick day. I you know, I feel that the diet has helped me in terms of stamina and endurance, but it's primarily about my compassionate and spiritual outlook. Has it affected your your music at all? absolutely. I mean, so many people ask me and I'm sure Belint, you've had the same question.

What's the thing about music and veganism? Are there any connections? And yes, of course they are because when we perform, it's about communication. It's about reaching out. Music is like a meeting point of human awareness and spiritual awareness. And veganism is so much about the same thing. It's about seeing the connections that we all have to each other. So.

Music, it's so much more than just a career for me. It's a way to enhance my relationship to the world. OK, now, Blent, at the same time that you went vegan, think, or correct me if I'm wrong, you also began building muscles in in a unique way.

RMEP Podcast (09:11.66)

So was it coincident with going vegan that this muscle building happened? When did that start and how did that happen? The first book I discovered in the Tribe series was the main book. But then I found out there are three more books and one of them is Tribe Fitness. When I read that, I realized that there are exercises I can do on my own.

at home, you know, I don't have time to go to the gym, you know, I'm teaching, I'm studying, I'm performing. So when I read Thrive Fitness, I discovered functional training, bodyweight training, suspension training, et cetera. I started doing that and I started to experience this interesting, you know, physical development. But this is also related to my vocal journey.

So the body is mind and the body are instruments in my view that I'm using in life in performing vocalization, singing, cetera. So I said, let me fully work on these instruments, like a complete tuning of the instrument. So that means ultimately functional body weight training.

Why? Because functional training develops the body in a natural way. We use the body in the same way we use it in life. Unlike bodybuilding, isolated muscle development, heavy lifting, etc.

RMEP Podcast (11:08.428)

This started in 2012, I believe. I started functional training. But when I started seeing this interesting physical development, I said, you know, I think I should share this with people. There's something important happening here. Let me share it. And around that time, I came across that PETA Prime advertisement in 2020.

We're the most beautiful vegan over 50. Yes. So now I should tell you, I'm planning to enter that contest when I'm old enough. So, you know, I may win one day in the distant future. I think they stopped. I think they stopped the contest. I have to change all my plans now.

And I don't, I don't seek attention in life, but I, you know, when I saw that, you know, I said, should I, should I enter, should I enter? And it's a big, big step, kind of something that I have, I had never done in my life, you know, stepping forward as an athlete. But I said, let me do it. then the rest. Did you pose in pictures with your muscles? Yes. So, you know, I.

I had just around that time, I had started making some social media posts, know, here's something interesting happening and all these muscle development. I'm just eating class. I'm not lifting weights. I'm not going to the gym. I'm using, you know, steroids and testosterone supplements and all that crazy stuff. The message that I'm sharing is this. If this is happening, living my regular life.

there is something important to see in this experience.

RMEP Podcast (13:10.766)

I realized in this journey that human nature is herbivore. So ultimately I realized that I had never become a vegan. From birth, all humans are vegan. We just realized that at some point in life. Some people say humans are omnivores, we can choose to eat plants. Scientifically, it is incorrect. If we analyze human system, it's a complete herbivore. And there are many scientists who say this.

Of course.

RMEP Podcast (13:46.09)

In my view, what we do does not define us. What we are must define the actions, what we do. Humans ate animals for centuries. That doesn't mean they are carnivores or omnivores. Right. It just means they make a mistake very often. Yeah. Yes. There are people who eat stones, who eat

glass, you know, we don't call them stone walls or glassy walls, right? That doesn't mean it's good for them. Similarly, meat is not good for humans. know, coming back to your question,

RMEP Podcast (14:31.566)

And adding my overall view, this experience is combined with vocal development or vocal transformation. And physical development accompanied and still accompanies, has been accompanying this vocal development.

For example, similar to realizing that humans are vegans, I realized that my voice was not tenor, even though I studied at three conservatories, tenor repertoire.

After graduating from the third school, I took a break from singing because my voice was gone almost. I had to stop. And I went through this deep introspection and transformation and I came out of that period sounding baritone. So I didn't become a baritone. I just realized that I wasn't a singer.

Similarly, just like you, you always were a native vegan. You always were a native baritone. Yes, yes. So whatever our whatever is our nature, we should be willing to express them in my. Well, let me see if if Joanne can relate to that point. When you became a vegan, were there aspects of your personality or your talents that

came out and you realized, this is the way I naturally am. Not particularly. I think it's a little bit different with singers, right, Bulent, because your body is your instrument. What I would say is that all along, even from when I was a young child, I always felt very different from other people. And I think I always I was always a very sensitive person. And I think

RMEP Podcast (16:36.43)

know, I would pick up on people's feelings, and always tried to be extra kind to anybody I met. And I think I had innate within me, that certain aspect of spiritual value that then later in my life kind of blossomed. I think that's it. And so similar to what Bulent was saying, it's like,

It allowed the real vegan and animal person within me to come out as I grew older. So, yeah, it's really an interesting question. And did you at some point, Joanne, come to the same conclusion that Bulent was mentioning how science really teaches us that we are all natural herbivores? Did you at some point come to the realization that, you know what, everyone's doing this wrong and

Yeah, everyone's making a mistake here, even from a health standpoint. Right. And it's not natural. It's just culture that causes us to eat food that is not human food. Right. Absolutely. I mean, sometimes I look back at myself because I was raised, of course, in a Chinese family and had a couple fantastic chefs in my family who would always prepare all of these animal based special foods.

And I kind of look back and shame it myself that I didn't see who I was eating, who I was eating. But that also taught me a lesson that the fact that many of us or many people are not vegan, it's really not our fault. We have to look at how we came into this world, how we model ourselves after what our parents do. And their actions, of course, are based on how they grew up.

And so there's that whole, as you mentioned, the cultural and family dynamic where you don't even think to question anything. You accept this is the way it is. And of course, all of the marketing campaigns about how milk does a body good and what is it real beef for real people? mean, all of those horrible slogans were so affected as consumers by the messages all around us.

RMEP Podcast (18:59.01)

So yeah, I remember growing up and seeing all of those messages too. And I didn't actively think about, well, this definitely is true. I just kind of accepted it. So I think it's about adopting, first of all, the idea to become more educated about what you're eating and where your food comes. But then second of all, to really ask those deep questions and make those connections.

And I always try to do it with a very positive and nurturing viewpoint when I'm dealing with, you know, if I'm speaking in public, I'll say, hey, how many of you have pets? And having pets is a beautiful example of this innate compassion we have within us. And we can be, I think, the most positive advocates by pointing out the good

that we all have as humans. We do love animals, right? Right. Now, when you transformed into a vegetarian and then a vegan, did your family go along with you? They went along with it, but my father didn't understand. And the first thing he said was when I first went vegetarian, he said, how are you going to have enough strength to sit up at the piano, which, course, ties into that whole stereotype, which Boulent

know, remarkably proves wrong that, if you're vegetarian, you're this weakling, you're not getting enough protein, you're not strong, you know, it's that those myths that we're constantly having to push back on. But I think the best way we can be advocates is to be ourselves and be models for good health, vibrant energy, what we're able to achieve. So hopefully, as musicians, are both doing that right?

Yes, yes. Bülent, what about your family? You mentioned that your mother gave you a book which was instrumental in your first going vegetarian. So was your mother a vegetarian? She wasn't. wasn't. She was an opera singer. She used to eat meat. That goes to conditioning.

RMEP Podcast (21:22.798)

being conditioned and in years she reduced animal product consumption. She wasn't a vegetarian but that's something that surprised me. You your loved ones, you discuss certain things, you you love them, your close family.

Why are they not doing this? So why did your mother give you that book? I don't know. Maybe she had my podcast in mind. Yes. In 1996, she foresaw. Yeah. I'm glad she gave you the book. My mother, by the way, when she was pregnant with me, decided

that she would raise me vegetarian. Now, I learned that fact when I was 17. Wow. When I was at 17, I decided to go vegetarian. And my mother said, well, what took you so long? No. What the hell is that? She said, well, when I was pregnant with you, I planned to raise you as a vegetarian. So I said, well, but you're not a vegetarian and that's not a vegetarian. And my sister is in a vegetarian.

Why were you going to raise me as a vegetarian? And she said, because when I was pregnant with you, Glenn, you felt like a vegetarian. What does that mean? That's really good. That's what she told me. So it was kind of destiny for me, but I didn't figure it out for 17 years. I believe the reason my mother gave me that book

was to give me a different perspective in life about diet, lifestyle. Of course, as a mother, know, she, know, all mothers would want their children to be healthy and happy and good health.

RMEP Podcast (23:31.668)

Even though I don't know the exact reason, I know that this is the reason, right? To care, love, and I'm grateful for that. It's still a mystery to me, you know, why she didn't go that path. Yeah. Just like my mother didn't raise me as a vegetarian because her doctor talked her out of it and said that I would grow up

You know, my brain wouldn't form and my bones wouldn't form. I would be weak. she he scared the hell out of her. So she didn't raise me as a vegetarian. And that has colored my whole opinion of the medical community ever since. So Glenn, why at 17? Oh, why? Because I when I was 16, two of my uncles died of heart attacks.

I never knew my grandparents. They were dead of heart disease and cancer before I was born. My father's cousins died of heart attacks. There was so much heart disease on both sides of my family that I just, figured, okay, I'll be middle-aged at 25 if I eat the way these people eat. Why would I want to be middle-aged at 25? So I did it initially for health reasons. And I have kind of, you both,

had, I think, an immediate connection to the animal rights side of things. I initially came at it for health, and I make a distinction that maybe isn't much of a distinction, but I thought it was just revolting, disgusting that we slaughtered animals and

and cut them up and ate them. As opposed to feeling love and compassion for the animals, which maybe I did and maybe I wasn't aware of, but I didn't think of it in those terms. just thought, why would you chop up a cow and eat it? I don't look at a cow and get hungry. And it seemed to me,

RMEP Podcast (25:54.976)

just a cruel thing to do. So I didn't want to be part of it. But I also didn't want to go up to a cow and pet it. You know, it wasn't like a close connection that I felt to animals. It was a sense of leave them alone. They're nice animals. Just leave them alone. Why would you want to do this cruel thing?

of cutting them up and then eating them and giving yourself a heart attack. So it just seemed to me wrong. didn't move me initially in the direction of being an animal rights advocate. It moved me in the direction of just being first a vegetarian and then a vegan for my own health. And then just realizing that it's all part of the same big picture.

When you do, whether you come at it from animal rights or the environment or health, you realize that it's all part of the same thing. Humanity is making one big mistake and it is screwing up the world in multiple ways. Yes. screwing up our health. It's screwing up the planet and it's obviously terribly cruel to the animals. Absolutely. Absolutely. And your book, your wonderful book about, you know,

connection between what we eat and the climate. is climate. It is very sad, you all these industries, big industries, know, big this, big that, big ag, big pharma, and they're strong hold in society's consciousness and manipulation.

exploitation. Ultimately, money, ego, power, in the meantime, humans are suffering, animals are suffering, Earth is suffering, Mother Nature is suffering. This is crazy. I mean, what humans are doing to themselves and to everything and everyone around them, it's not reasonable. It's illogical and it's cruel.

RMEP Podcast (28:18.158)

I grew up loving animals. I grew up in an, let's say, omnivorous lifestyle. Why? Like all of us, being conditioned, following a certain path without question, but heart doesn't allow that to continue forever. Mind is stuck in that path.

But the heart has the ultimate word. So what happened ultimately, like all of our hearts, which is one, universal, life showed me certain things. It brought me to certain points and I started seeing things. And I questioned, how is it possible? How was it possible that I had not seen this before?

It's basically awakening. There are so many good people in the world, so many good-hearted people. But there is this disconnection between thought, word and deed. This harmony between thought, word and deed. There is a beautiful saying, watch. Spiritual speaking, what is a watch?

five letters, right? So we have W, words, and then A, actions, T, thoughts, C, character, H, hearts. So if we have harmony, I hope I spelled it correctly, right? Watch. You did. You did. It's not my first language. yeah. Got two writer editors here. You were going to be the one.

words, actions, thoughts, character, heart. If you always watch this, will be fine. And the world will be fine.

RMEP Podcast (30:22.51)

People say, love Mother Nature, we love animals, and then they go and unintentionally, unknowingly, they do the exact opposite of what they feel, or what they assert, or what they claim. So, I started to discover this in my life, and I came to this point of alignment. So, at the core, nothing changed. But in terms of the layers of the human...

alignment occurred, body mind soul. This is a spiritual journey from here to here for all of us in mind.

This never changes. if in my view, the mind is like the moon and the heart is like the sun, this should be so clean and cleansed that it should reflect the light coming from the sun. This doesn't create light. It should only reflect the truth that resides in the heart. That's my view. Okay. It's interesting how you brought up the

the huge disconnection. And, you know, now there's, there's talk about the avian flu going around that sort of thing. And the thing that really saddened me about the whole COVID pandemic, and we all went through it, right. But the way people acted and the way industries acted showed that enormous blind spot when you know, the animals couldn't be processed. Right away, the headline said,

food chain disrupted, which shows that embedded acceptance that, we have to eat meat in order to survive. So you saw that talk about food chains being disrupted, stories about millions and millions of animals that needed to be gassed or suffocated or drowned. And the way the mainstream media and industry talked about that,

RMEP Podcast (32:26.056)

we see this all the time is that the animals they were not killed, they were not slaughtered, they were cold or they were here's a word that came up all the time, depopulated. So even in the language that's adopted, this has served over and over again to distance society from what's happening to these beautiful animals. And Jim Mason,

has a fantastic term I use all the time. He says that we have managed to self anesthetize ourselves. We've allowed ourselves to become numb and distanced from what's happening. So as you say, Bulent, it's a matter that we need to open people's hearts. need to do everything we can to urge them to connect with their hearts, you know, with what's on the inside.

And it's a very real thing. It's not some Pollyanna thing. It's not, you know, some side thing. Our identity is bound up with every single action and thought that we have, right? Yeah. And I'll go back to my point that the health side of things lines up with the environmental side of things, lines up with the emotional and animal rights side of things, because also when the pandemic hit,

There was a scientific study in BMJ, British Medical Journal, that showed 73%, if I recall correctly, 73 % reduced lower chance of severe COVID for those who ate a, quote, plant-based diet.

Now, I eat a better diet than a plant-based diet. I eat a whole foods vegan diet. Who knows what percentage it is for people who eat the kind of diet I eat. Dr. Kim Williams, the cardiologist, asked around the country, he asked around colleagues, people at different hospitals. I don't believe he ever came across a single case of a single death.

RMEP Podcast (34:48.92)

for people who are eating a whole foods vegan diet. So could Anthony Fauci have perhaps mentioned that if you want to reduce your chances of dying of COVID, you should eat a whole foods vegan diet? know, people get angry at Anthony Fauci for all kinds of reasons, most of which I think are phony. Not true.

He's probably a very decent man who has generally tried his best to help human health. But what I get angry at him and some of the others in government, why couldn't they mention? Why couldn't Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, who's a vegetarian, mention once offhand, somehow, sometime, that if you eat plants, you might do far, far better during COVID.

Thank you for mentioning that. This is so important. In my view, the two main causes I see in this picture, one is institutionalized dogma to fear. Even if they believe in what you say, if they utter a word about that, they will be fired. Because these industries control governments.

Unfortunately, I say it openly, I have no concern or fear. In this pandemic or throughout the pandemic, very, very carefully listen to true scientists like Neil Barnard, like Colin Campbell. Two very important things.

One, heard Neel Barnard says, cholesterol and fat cells.

RMEP Podcast (36:50.542)

are the welcome net for the virus and the coronaviruses thrive in cholesterol and fat cells. Where does cholesterol come from? Animal products. One, two, Dr. Campbell, China study, based on China study, he says, paraphrasing him.

a person who eats only plants. In that person's body, the immune system is optimized not only against coronavirus, but against all viruses. Optimized. It doesn't say it's foolproof, but it's optimized. So all these people who say, not against, you know, I personally, I'm for science, but true science, not institutionalized dogma. If

If

Fauci and the likes if they told the public scientifically we are sharing this with you Take this to heart take take this into account

cholesterol, the coronaviruses, thriving cholesterol, that means give up animal products. If you want to increase your chances of living and decrease your chances of catching this virus, eat plants, no animal products, comorbidities, right? So people who who are overweight, right? What is the cause? Mainly animal products, mainly, not the only reason, but it's a big reason. So,

RMEP Podcast (38:31.426)

the more fat, the more cholesterol one has in the body, the higher the likelihood for that person to catch the virus and to get sick and to die. Right. whether it's more likely to whether they're more likely to catch the virus is perhaps unknown, but it's certain that they're more likely to suffer. Yes. But if you analyze what Dr. Rana says, that if he says cholesterol and fat cells are the welcome net for the virus.

the less cholesterol and the, of course we get a certain amount of fat, but if we were, if people are in the ideal condition in terms of fat amount, et cetera, you know, logically that would, that should decrease the, in my view, you know, chances of catching the virus. Right. You know, I caught COVID and it was like a bad cold for a couple of days.

Yeah, I Yeah, I caught COVID too. And it was like, well, what's this? mean, I coughed a little bit one day and then the next day I was negative. You know, so it's like, and isn't it crazy now that people are deploring and complaining about the price of eggs? And Dr. Milton mills I hope keeps going up. Yes. Well, Dr. Mills says, you know, eggs are cholesterol bombs. It's like, why don't you consider not eating eggs? That shows the

You know how the public is brainwashed. We need to eat our eggs. You don't need to eat eggs. You know what I call that? Addiction. Addiction. EGG. Addiction. Addiction, yeah. That's good. Yeah. It's interesting. I must add this. I'm not against vaccines, right? Dr. Barnard in the Physicians Committee, he, for example, asked

you know, the members or his employees to be vaccinated. But what, and Dr. Campbell says the same thing, he's a scientist, he's not against vaccines, but nutritional science comes first. Nutrition comes first, lifestyle comes first. On top of that, if people want to have vaccines, that's their call. But what will optimize the immune system is

RMEP Podcast (40:57.582)

his diet lifestyle and then not necessarily in the first place vaccines, they have their place. But just like institutionalized dogma, know, on the pills, surgery, this and that, and we don't want to hear anything else. You know, it's a sad picture. Well, this insane egg diction, as you call it, brings me to another issue, which is we are surrounded, we are a minority.

We are surrounded by people who eat meat and dairy products and eggs. And there is the stereotype of the annoying vegan. And Joanne, you are a speaker and an advocate. How do you thread that needle? How do you walk that line of trying to spread the message without falling into the stereotype of the annoying vegan?

Yeah, well, Claire Mon, who I'm sure you know who wrote Vistopia, fantastic book where she talks about the turmoil that we vegans go through. She really puts it really well. She says that when we're interacting with people, we need to come across as normal, happy, adjusted, wonderful individuals who just happen to be vegan. So I think that a good piece of advice for advocates is

We're here to simply engage with other people as we normally would do in a two way conversation. And by having a conversation, you are listening foremost and learning about that other person and where they're coming from. I have a very good friend who has always said when you're trying to get across an important point, first you have to go on their side.

you have to be with them and connect with them. And that gives you a clearer idea or a pathway of how you can bring up the idea of veganism. And another thing I oftentimes do is I'll point out how going vegan benefited me. So it's about, again, that idea of being a model.

RMEP Podcast (43:20.674)

Because when you try to accuse people, become very defensive. And it's like you're right away separating yourself as a superior expert and you don't know anything. So it's a matter of just seeing your interactions as a very equal, productive conversation. you know, these are words of wisdom. Have you found much success?

in creating new vegans? Yeah, you know, for me it's been mostly an indirect kind of thing. Like at my place of work, I teach in a department of music. And every once in a while, someone like one of my students, I had two students who I work one on one with, who know about all my work. And their last semester, at the end of last academic year, they both happened to mention, yeah.

I went vegan half a year ago. I didn't even know they went vegan. Or the husband of a fellow colleague came downstairs and told her one day, hey, Jennifer, I'm gonna go vegan. So sometimes we don't realize just how much we're planting seeds. I can tell you so many instances where I've gone into say a grocery store.

And someone encounters me, I'm in the vegan section and they start talking and they say, hey, I went vegan and, just complete strangers. So you never even had a direct connection with when you have those experiences, you know, that somehow, hopefully the message is getting out there. And Blennt, have you had a similar kind of journey with talking to people?

Yes, especially my students, my voice students. When I teach voice and my vocal system is called the vocal athletic system, vocalization is an activity. That means when I talk to my students, I show them, I share with them the importance of the diet and the connection between diet and the

RMEP Podcast (45:41.12)

vocal athletic activity. So many of my students through the years, they went vegan. I'm happy to say some friends, but it is also sad. On the other hand, there is a sad picture. Many friends, they see my experience. Some of them are close friends. And we talk about compassion, animal suffering. They say, yeah, yes, you're right. The next thing you see is that they are eating animals.

As if, I mean, this is the sad picture, right? You were talking about the harmony between thought, word and need. Saying something and doing something else and thinking something, you know, this harmony.

RMEP Podcast (46:27.758)

When this PETA contest occurred in 2020, I became very active. Let me share my experience with people. Hopefully it will help people. But yes, it helps some people. But in time, I also realized that I was spending so much energy and time. And in the end, I realized that the best way, as Joanne said, the best way to help others is perhaps

Just to be good example, leaving our lives based on our values, universal human values, not contrived artificial human values. And if there is a conversation, if someone asks a question, I'm happy to answer, but I'm not going out of my way anymore and wasting my energies to awaken people or to help people because

If people are doing this, no matter how much light you show, they won't see it. So there needs to be openness to receive.

I'd to add this about my experience.

RMEP Podcast (47:45.55)

How is it possible for an opera singer or a crossover opera singer to have this interesting experience of this physical development? And in the end, people are thinking he's a bodybuilder. I'm not a bodybuilder. Why do people think I'm a bodybuilder?

Why? of those muscles. Yes. What is behind that? That's a interesting developments, diet lifestyle, mainly. And let me interrupt you. Where can people see pictures of you with your muscles online at what website? The Pitta article is available on the internet. The title is A Myth Busting Vegan Journey, Bülent Gülere.

And there are many hyperlinks in it and athletes hyperlink is there. On your own website? My own website. I made the athlete page not public. Recently because I think people are confused when they go to my website. You see a singer, see a vegan activist, you see an athlete, who is this drummer, pianist? All of them. All of them. But...

My social media pages are there. But the easiest is just to go to the Pita article and to click on the hyperlink and that would take- Okay, give us the title of the Pita article again. Myth Busting Vegan Journey. A Myth Busting Vegan Journey. Yeah. Yeah. And if you Google that along with the name Bulent, B-U-L-E-N-T. Yes, B-U-N-E-R-A-N-T. That's my full name. And I believe-

Even without typing my name, if they just type a move-busting vegan journey, should show up. Because it's remarkable to see these muscles and then realize you didn't lift weights. That's right. In the 90s, I did some bodybuilding in my, let's say, omnibus years, lifting weights, et cetera. Some people say, well, he did bodybuilding then, you know, of course, know, he has... That doesn't make sense at all. People...

RMEP Podcast (50:11.214)

can believe whatever they want to believe, but that doesn't mean that's the fact. After I stopped, let's say, bodybuilding in those years, mid-90s, I got thinner, thinner, thinner, especially after I came to this country, just studying, singing, et cetera, no exercise, nothing, I got even thinner. And my videos are, know, my materials are on the web. There's even a video in the PETA article.

transformation video. Walk of transformation and the physical transformation. You see me, this thin guy, tiny kind of, coupled by almost kind of double in size. Right. And your voice became lower. You have the natural now rich voice of a people who's eating rich plant food. My larynx was like a knot.

Because for years, for about 14 years, I tried to sing this tenor repertoire forcing my voice as if one forces a violent repertoire into a cello or double bass, that kind of manipulation. that's, diet is part of it, but it's mainly technical.

technical developments or you're getting rid of bad habits. but going back to this, I'd like to, for all our audience, I'd like to make these important points. I eat only plants and I became raw vegan in 2021. It's an amazing journey. Amazing things are happening. But the basic points I'd like to make

are these. I do not use steroids. Many people say it's not possible to have these kinds of muscle without using steroids or your testosterone.

RMEP Podcast (52:21.038)

What kind of logic is this? Someone this half conscious, conscious why this person should go and have these crazy supplements, know, steroids, et cetera, to kill himself. I don't use supplements. don't use protein powders. The only supplements that I use are B12 and vitamin D. In summer months, we don't need vitamin D if we have some exposure. And B12 is just to be on the safe side.

Some people say, know, chlorella or dulse, et cetera, they have B12 or fermented foods, et cetera, to be on the safe side, following, know, physician's committee's recommendations or his great plant-based doctors, it's best to have our B12 supplements. I don't count calories. I don't count protein, et cetera. I don't use oil. No, wait, the only weight I lift is my body.

That's the only weight that I lift. So the only weight that I lift, yes. So in other words, if you do push ups, you're using your body as your weight resistance. Yes, I use something called jungle gym. I discovered it tried fitness. It's not a machine. It's just two straps with cuffs for hands and feet. You can use it at home. You can use it in nature, know, a tree branch, et cetera. But what happened? It's interesting.

I became a better pianist, drummer and singer. Functional bodyweight training improved things in every aspect of my life. The most important thing is the spiritual aspect, right? The alignment and feeling peace. But if you look at the expressions of this, you energy and the drive,

book, the main book, you know, the cover talks about, you know, the title, I don't know the exact title, a optimized performance in life. So you can be a school teacher, can be a doctor, can be a podcaster, can be an author, pianist, whatever the fields, we get this energy and apply it to our lives in different ways. If we go online, if you look at, you know, vegan athletes,

RMEP Podcast (54:47.67)

wonderful vegan athletes, right? They are doing great things, but you always find people in the comments criticizing them. Well, he's using supplements, protein powders. That means vegan diet is not natural. Well, this person doesn't use any of those. No crack in my experience. And I wish PETA took advantage of my experience. You know, they are sitting on a treasure and I hope they would hear this podcast.

Well, whether people believe it or not, I do my work as a vegan podcast host without any protein powders. I have managed to sit up right and do that. No protein powders, vegan or otherwise. So let's conclude with this. I know that you are both talking about collaborating musically. I believe it hasn't happened yet. But Joanne, tell us about that.

Right. In my career, I've worked with a lot of instrumentalists, but also with a lot of singers. So, Bulent and I first became acquainted, I guess it was like at the start of the pandemic, right? It was shortly after you won the contest. Yeah, the PETA article. hopefully we will find some way to eventually do some kind of a performance together. And I do actually in

incorporate music a lot into my talks, oftentimes with PowerPoint imagery, talking about animals, doing poetic reflections and alternating those with performance at the piano. also do a lot of activism with a fantastic vegan cellist whose name is Christoph Wagner. So I think it's just fascinating to look at my own career and how I've been able to

use my music as a way to make a lot much larger statement in the world to lead to a more peaceful and compassionate world. And I hope in the future that we led and I will be able to get together and do that. I hope so. We actually prepared some programs you were getting ready to we were Yeah, were going to perform at a festival in Massachusetts and then the plans change there. So

RMEP Podcast (57:10.542)

We were ready to go to do some things. It didn't happen. So you're close. Very close. Yes. We hopefully... This is going to be a major vegan event when it happens. You have to let us know when it happens. We'll see. May, maybe in Eugene, perhaps in May, we'll see. Yeah, yeah, we'll see. I actually contacted Neil Barnard because he was trained as a classical cellist. And I wrote to him and said, hey, do you want to collaborate musically?

no, I don't really play classical cello anymore. Doesn't he play guitar in a band? Yeah, it's called Carbon Works, I think. He plays electric bass and sort of I mean, he is so amazing. Everything he does as a writer, a musician, an advocate, a physician. Yeah, I'm just inspired by people who do it all. Yeah. Speaking of doing it all, you're working on another book, aren't you, Joanne? Yeah. Can you tell us anything about it?

Yeah, it's a book I'm co authoring with Dr. Camila perusello, who is an award winning food scientist and vegan advocate who lives in Dublin, Ireland. And the book is called vegan made easy, a practical guide to plant based living. And when is that plan? When are the publication? Hopefully, hopefully in the fall, we wanted to come

come up with a practical guide to help people go vegan. Come back on the show when it's out. I I definitely will. OK. So for now, though, people can get this book, wonderful book, Vegan Voices, which Joanne edited, available on Amazon and from Lantern Publishing. And media, right. And media. And why don't you each sum up with

Any place where people can find you online and and what you're doing next. So, Joanne. Yeah, my website is vegans make a difference dot com. So that's the place to to read all about me. And yeah, I just do lots of speaking around the country. Lots of events that combine music and speaking. But that's my website. Vegans make a difference dot com. Right.

RMEP Podcast (59:33.578)

Okay, and Bulent? All problems are mental, all solutions are spiritual. Whatever problem we see in life, personal, social, national, global, the root causes are always mental. And the only way to address these is spiritual changes and transformation. Dive is a huge part of it.

What we eat is a certain form of vibration. It has a certain energy or it has energies in it. What we eat at the gross level forms the body, but at the subtle level it forms the mind. So the most warring nations are meat eaters, heavy meat eaters. There was a study during the pandemic in a prison.

gave vegan food to the inmates and their behavior changed. So anger, all this negativity we see in the world, even these will be affected if people move towards plant eating, alignments. So my message is ultimately is this love all, serve all, have ever hurt never. Love is the answer. Love is the solution. It's not a poetic idea.

It's about seeing the one in all. Looking at a cloud and seeing the sky in it. No cloud can say there's no sky in me. There is a universal entity in my experience and in my view, nameless and formless. And that's what we are. And looking at an animal, looking at a human, plant, et cetera, seeing, experiencing that oneness.

that is the spiritual solution and diet is a big part of this journey in value. So that's my message. And I how you talk about that. Yeah, that just reminded me, Bulent, of this saying I've heard often that says we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. So I think if we remind ourselves of that, like you're saying, it all starts with spirit and heart, and that can outplay through how we treat the...

RMEP Podcast (01:02:01.112)

physical world and our interactions with all others. So I think that's beautiful what you were saying. Thank you. And what you said is so beautiful, beautiful too. Really quickly, I'd like to add this too, in terms of our interactions with other people and you're Many people have a negative reaction to the word vegan or veganism. I actually, when I talk to people, yes, sometimes we talk about vegans, et cetera, but I'm approaching things from

this vantage point, I'm not vegan or non-vegan. I am nothing but I and I see myself in the other person and I have this conversation about life, diet, lifestyle, etc. But helping people to awaken to their own hearts. And in general, I find that asking questions is much more effective than

telling them what this is actually good for, it's not good for. For example, why are you eating meat? What is the reason? When did you start eating meat? Why is a great word that kind of stops certain wheels from turning in people's minds, kind of like a stick. So why are you doing this? Why are you not doing that? Asking, how do know that's true?

right? Where is the proof, etc. So, I don't want to take, you know, more, I don't want to add more to this wonderful chat, but I just want to quickly share these important things that I find important at the end of this conversation. Yeah. Well, thank you both so much. This has been an experiment, the three-way episode. I hope people have enjoyed listening to this conversation of

to people who have far more depth than I do. Oh, that's not true. Thank you so much, Glenn. It's so great. Thank you both. I look forward to your collaboration and all vegans out there do. So please keep us informed about your musical collaboration to come. Thank you so much, Joanne Kang and Bulent Gunarap. Thank you. Thank you.