Geoff Palmer Debunks Nutritional Myths: What the Meat and Dairy Industry Doesn’t Want You to Know

Think meat builds muscle and dairy strengthens bones? Think again.

In this myth-busting episode of The Glen Merzer Show, Geoff Palmer—vegan bodybuilder and founder of Clean Machine—joins Glen to take down some of the biggest lies in nutrition. Backed by science and passion, Palmer reveals how corporate interests and industry-funded studies have shaped public perception of food for decades.

“Heme iron causes disease states,” Palmer explains, highlighting the difference between plant-based iron and the harmful heme iron found in meat. He also tackles DHA supplementation, warning that it may increase risk of atrial fibrillation, a heart rhythm issue often overlooked in the omega-3 conversation.

And what about lectins—the plant compounds many fear? Palmer flips the narrative: “Lectins can kill cancer cells.” Turns out, these natural compounds are more friend than foe.

This episode also calls out blood type diets as pseudoscience, sheds light on the pro-inflammatory dangers of arachidonic acid (found in meat and eggs), and stresses the overlooked importance of vitamin D3—a nutrient many Americans are deficient in, regardless of diet.

For men questioning what’s really healthy, this episode offers clear, evidence-based insights that empower listeners to make smarter, plant-forward choices.

🎧 Listen now and arm yourself with the facts. Because real strength isn’t just about muscle—it’s about knowing the truth behind what fuels you.

Tags: #VeganMythBusting #GeoffPalmer #PlantBasedScience #DairyMyths #Omega3Facts #GlenMerzerShow #RealMenEatPlants #NutritionFacts

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DISCLAIMER: Please understand that the transcript below was provided by a transcription service. It is undoubtedly full of the errors that invariably take place in voice transcriptions. To understand the interview more completely and accurately, please watch it here: Geoff Palmer Debunks Nutritional Myths

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Welcome to The Glenn Merzer Show. You can find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You could find us on YouTube. And please remember to subscribe. You can find us at realmeneatplants.com. My guest today, as you could see, is a muscular fellow. He is a vegan bodybuilding champion. He is also the owner of Clean Machine Online, Healthy Vegan Supplements.

He is what I consider a good frume. If you don't know what a frume is, that's a friend who you've met only on Zoom. Jeff and I have met on Zoom many times, but we've never met in person. Jeff Palmer, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure where you mix some powerful guests with some wonderful humor. Thank you, Well, nice to see you as always.

And I thought what we would talk about today is nutritional myths. Now I have to begin with the old disclaimer. I'm not a doctor. Jeff is not a doctor. Neither of us are scientists or dietitians or nutritionists. So there you go. You've got your disclaimer. I'll put the disclaimer in the show notes. Having said that, I will say that in my

rank amateur opinion. Jeff knows more about nutrition than almost any doctor I've ever met. Now, again, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong, but that's what I think. Jeff knows a great deal about nutrition, and I value highly his ideas on nutrition. So having said that,

There are a lot of nutritional myths out there. Is it getting worse and worse? It is and partly because of corporate interests. Obviously there was a huge boom in plant-based products coming to market and a surge even on Google and across social media of the interest in the plant-based

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diet and approaches. The studies have come out overwhelming, but this has caused some industries like the dairy industry to want to fight back to protect their business, to protect their profits and bottom line. And they're fighting back with huge disinformation and misinformation campaigns, trying to scare people through scare marketing and getting influencers on social media to repeat these

catchphrases like seed oils or lectins or oxalates or phytic acid or plants are trying to kill you and plants are poisonous. my God. You know, remember when soy milk first hit, even rice milk first hit, it had a huge impact on dairy sales. So what did the dairy industry do? They funded a study to show, phytoestrins can make men into, you know, breast

breastfeeding males, right? And of course, it was all myth. Subsequent studies of over and over and over again, meta analysis, independent studies, university studies, all shown, phytoestrogens don't have effect on sex hormones, whether estrogen or testosterone at all. So just a total myth. But that myth still persists today when you, the term soy boy, you know.

or man boobs, moobs, right? You're gonna get moobs from eating soy. It's just not true. And ironically, the foods that do have high estrogen content is dairy, has real estrogen in it, human actual estrogen, and has shown not only to suppress testosterone, but increase estrogen.

And not only men, but young boys too as well during their critical phase of development. So the very thing that the dairy industry was purporting to try to get people to fear away from soy milk so that they would go back to drinking dairy milk is exactly what their product is causing. But that misinformation campaign is still persistent to this day. That's how big and powerful

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fear marketing is, how successful it is for these corporate interests. Now, the big myth that has gone on with my whole lifetime is the idea that what makes you strong, what gives you muscle, is eating meat. Now, I try to figure out where that comes from. Meat is, in fact, the muscle tissue of an animal, right?

So I guess the idea is that if you eat muscle, you get muscle. And I want to ask you therefore, for example, the French famously eat frog's legs. Do they jump higher than the rest of us from eating frog's legs?

Is there any study in the New England Journal of Medicine that shows that if you eat lot of frogs legs, you will jump very high? What's worse than that is the Asian countries' habit of eating tiger penis. I didn't know about that. Yes. What does that do for you? And ground rhino horn, supposed to make you hornier, pun intended.

Yeah, and Tiger penis by eating tiger penis they believed they would get longer male members Wow, which is obviously not the case So that doesn't work if it were working there would be a very very few tigers Just like this the soy myth, I don't know every time I post it

small breasted women always come onto my post and say, my God, I'd be eating soy every single day that actually caused your breast to grow. Now,

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Eating liver. When I was a child, my mother actually fed me liver and she actually loved me, but it's hard to explain, but she fed me liver. Eating liver. Would that be good for your liver? No, and unfortunately just the opposite. Okay, so where did this myth come from? Heem iron, you know, is very rich in liver.

So they say, your liver in order to get more heme iron. We used to think that heme iron was superior to plat-based iron because it's free iron. It's unattached to anything. So it goes right into the bloodstream and skyrockets the iron levels in the blood. And I think, oh, that's a much more efficient way of getting iron into the system. We now know that that actually causes disease states. That rush of iron and its free state

What is iron? Iron is a metal. What happens when you get a metal wet? Especially iron. It rusts. It oxidizes. Well, what's our whole body is water. So when you have this free iron in there touching water, it begins to oxidize. It captures oxygen molecules and then becomes corrosive. Oxygen is actually the most one of the most corrosive molecules.

on earth and our body actually uses oxygen to break down fat because it's so good at being corrosive. We have an antioxidant system that actually binds to that oxygen to prevent it from doing that. But when you have that big rush of hemide getting into the blood system, you've got much more than we can neutralize as far as oxidation. Well, that oxidation has a scientific name for it. It's called ferroptosis, ferro meaning iron.

and optosis meaning cell death. And that's what happens when iron oxidizes in the body. So our liver actually produces a chemical called hepcidin to block that heme iron from getting into our bloodstream to prevent ferroptosis from wrecking our entire body, damaging all kinds of cells in our body. Now, when that ferroptosis blocks the heme iron from getting in from our digestive tract,

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Kim iron builds up in the digestive tract and starts killing and destroying and causing colorectal cancer. Colorectal cancer is now the number one cancer killer of men under 50 years of age. And younger and younger people are coming down with this. 20 year old people now colorectal cancer. We've been never seen that.

until of course these fat diets like keto diets and carnivore diets, paleo, carnivore, low carb, all of these are high heme iron diets because heme iron is only found in flesh. Heme iron doesn't exist in the plant kingdom. It only comes from animal flesh. The plants actually bind heme iron to a wonderful antioxidant, super powerful antioxidant to prevent that iron.

from oxidizing and causing it. Not only that, when that phytate breaks off of it, we used to think, you've heard Dr. Gundry or maybe Dr. Berg or some of these other crack doctors out there, spouting books, selling books based on fad diets. And they're like, phytate binds to iron so we don't absorb it. The phytate regulates the release of iron so we don't get too much in the system. It's protecting us.

from getting a heme iron imbalance. So the heme iron, our microbiome, will break off that phytic acid and release the iron only when we need it. Our actual body sends chemical messages to our microbiome to tell us when and where we need that iron. Otherwise, it's protected. This is the proper way to consume iron from plants. And this is a key to health, is to trust your body. Your body.

will manufacture just the amount of cholesterol you need. You don't have to take in dietary cholesterol. That's going to screw things up. Your body will release iron from the stores of iron that it gets from plants. You don't need to take in the heme iron that floods your body. And I think there's another analogy there with omega.

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omega-3 fatty acids, is there not? So go into that one. Okay, so one, this whole omega-3 to omega-6. All right, where did this all start? A study in the 60s on Inuit peoples, what we call Eskimos, right? People living in the Alaska area, and they said, hey, wait a minute, these people are not getting heart attacks. They're not dying of heart attacks.

because they looked at the registry and see what they're dying and none of them hardly were dying of heart attacks. They're like, well, it's because they're eating so much fish, it must be the omega-3. And boom, the omega-3 myth was born that we need all this omega-3 because it prevents heart attacks. Well, when the researchers went back and looked, well, wait a minute, what are they dying from? They're dying from type 2 diabetes, they were dying from cancer, but they were all dying about 35 to 38. That was their lifespan.

38 years old. They all had atherosclerosis, 100 % of them. They just didn't die from it because they never reached 40. They were dying from other things before then. They wouldn't die if they actually lived into their 40s and 50s of heart attacks, but they never got that far because atherosclerosis takes longer to build up in the arteries. But the fish oil myth was born and the fish oil industry now were

$20 billion a year industry took this and ran with it. Now, so people say, it's not the heart then, but it's the brain. We need DHA for the brain, right? Because when we look at the brain, we see, my God, the main source of fatty acid in the brain is DHA. But do you know what the second most one, almost exactly the same as DHA? Arachidonic acid.

Our brain requires omega-6 arachidonic acid almost to the same degree as DHA. As a matter of fact, the amount of arachidonic acid that the body produces and uses for the brain is about six grams a day. Do you know how much DHA the brain uses? Three to four milligrams. 6,000 milligrams of arachidonic acid. Four milligrams.

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of DHA. So why on earth are humans taking 250 to a thousand to several thousand milligrams of DHA to provide the brain with three to four milligrams? Sales and marketing done by the fish oil industry. Okay, omega-3 conversion to DHA. So 90 to 98 % of

Everybody's diet. I don't care what you're eating unless you're carnivore, but every omnivore eating person, 90 plus percent of your omega-3s come from ALA from plants. So why are we focused on the four to five percent that's coming from animals? I don't get it. When you look at the studies, vegans were consuming on average 2.69 grams of ALA a day.

omnivores and meat eaters, one gram. So we're two and a half times higher intake of omega-3 than the common omnivore. All right. So we're intaking a lot more than two and a half times more than somebody eating an omnivorous diet, a mixed diet of plants and animals. So why the low conversion of the blood? All right. So they started with this blood test, the omega-3 blood test. Bill Harris, the inventor of the omega-3 blood test,

actually had to come out recently and say the omega-3 blood test is not effective for those only consuming ALA because it doesn't measure that. So, vegans have been getting their omega-3 blood test and saying, I don't have any DHA. Well, that's because ALA does not convert to DHA in the blood. It converts to DHA in the liver. Why is that? Because

ALA converting to DHA in the blood would increase LDL cholesterol, would block your body's ability to create its own DHA, would interfere with the health benefits of EPA. It blocks and blunts the health benefits of EPA. And then on top of that, it can negatively impact the heart causing atrial fibrillation. We've got dozens of over 30 different studies have shown

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that high amounts of DHA cause atrial fibrillation. It's not debatable at this point. And it's because DHA causes fluidity, cellular fluidity. So when the heart has to pump, it needs a nice rigid wall to stiff pump, right? To pump that blood. When you make the membranes fluid by adding more DHA, it becomes squishy and watery, and now you get irregular heartbeat.

that irregular heartbeat increases your risk for heart attack by 63 % and published human research. Not only that, it increases because it's irregularly pushing blood into the brain. So light volume, heavy volume, light volume, heavy volume is pounding the small blood vessels in the brain and causing strokes. It's causing dementia. It's causing the small blood vessels that reach the different parts of our brain to burst.

and to die. And then that part of the brain does not get blood flow, does not get oxygen, and there's dementia. Atrial fibrillation, which can be caused by consuming pre-formed DHA, even from algae, can lead, the atrial fibrillation can lead to a 220 % increase in dementia. So you have to be careful, therefore, about taking any supplements with DHA. Is that what you're saying?

preformed supplemental DHA or obviously the preformed DHA that's in fish or in animal products. This is why we can clearly see that the human body is designed to take ALA in its precursor form only from plants. Animals don't make ALA, period. Nothing. No eggs, fish, nothing. All right. So.

comes into the body, the body escorts it out of the bloodstream. First it converts to EPA, does that very efficiently. There's never been any argument about ALA converting to EPA, because we know it does, and it does it very efficiently. Actually, it does it more efficiently in vegans than it does in omnivores. Why is that? Because our body sees, if you have an input of something,

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In its preform state, our body says, okay, great. I don't need to produce the enzyme. Let's save that protein. Let's save that energy production and produce less of the enzyme for converting because it's already pre-converted for us. So I don't have to make it myself. That's the energy conservation principle that runs our entire body. If we don't need to use it, we lose it. Same if you take testosterone. If you put it into somebody's body through injection or a pill form.

Our body says, well, great, I don't have to make my own shuts down production of testosterone. Now that can lead to the permanent shutdown of testosterone in people where they have to stay on testosterone. Same with fibroids, but this is a little different. It's nutritive, so our body can bounce back. But if you only give the body its precursor, it says, all right, we've got a great source of the precursor. Let's produce even more of the enzymes and the process becomes even more efficient.

So vegans in the Epic Norfolk study showed that vegans had the highest rates of ALA to DHA conversion. Because we are telling the body convert the precursor, not telling the body by sending in pre-formed DHA, you don't have to produce that enzyme to convert it. So the studies were looking at people who were omnivorous, right? But when you looked at people that were vegan,

A whole different system was going on. So the assumption was, we don't produce enough of the enzymes to convert. No, that's in them because you're already sending it pre-converted. But when you stop sending it pre-converted completely, the body says, great, let's just pump out these enzymes all day long. And now you become even more efficient at converting it than those who are getting it from food or supplements.

So part of the lesson there is that if they do studies on the broad American population, which overwhelmingly is omnivorous, they can come to the wrong conclusions about what the body needs, just like they could come to the wrong conclusions if they do a study on the value of a colonoscopy because they're testing.

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this on the broad population that's eating meat and carcinogenic compounds and may have more of a need for a colonoscopy than someone eating a healthy plant rich diet. A hundred percent. And that's been my issue is that 98 % of all of the research studies that are done on Omega-3s are done on EPA and DHA because they're funded by the fish oil companies.

that want that research available. So they've flooded the scientific community by paying for these studies to support their findings and their product use. ALA doesn't get any love in the research community unless it's a university and some PhD student is trying to say, hey, what about ALA? Let's test that. When they do test it, ALA always, almost always

benefits health outcomes better. did an interesting study with ALA. So they gave people EPA and DHA and lowered blood pressure a little bit, which is good. And they found that EPA did it better than DHA. Remember, ALA from plants converts the EPA even better than other sources. So that was good. But they said, well, what about ALA? So they took people already on fish oil and gave them just extra ALA and their blood pressure dropped even more.

So the ALA was more effective than the fish oil. But nobody talks about that because all the studies are done only on the fish oil. They never include ALA in the studies. Now, how come we're not seeing or are we seeing people getting more heart disease when they're taking this pre-formed DHA? So they do have benefits. EPA, DHA, SDA.

So there are actually six different forms of omega-3s, ALA, SDA, ETA, EPA, DPA, and then DHA. And our body actually uses all of those for different reasons. And even cooler, each one of those forms breaks down into different metabolites called proresolvins and oxylipins. Oxylipins are getting a lot of research recently because

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there are oxylippins that are unique to ALA and SDA, the first two, which only come from plants, by the way. And those oxylippins have health benefits both in the gut and in the body that could potentially be more anti-inflammatory than EPA and DHA themselves. So there's a whole nother group called icosanoids, which are metabolites, that show that DHA could actually be pro-inflammatory.

So this whole dance that's going on in the body of the body using some omega-6 and some omega-3 and EPA, DHA, arachidonic acid, GLA, and DGLA, and all of this dance is going on by the body and it's controlled by the body epigenetically turning on and off genes to produce enzymes to convert a little bit more of GLA, a little bit more of EPA, a little bit more of DHA, and it's

carefully balancing this based on your gender, based on your health conditions, based on your exercise levels, based on your age, based on your physiology, based on your food intake. All of these are being balanced by the body. And then we come along and say, let's just take this preform version of this and jam it into the system. And the body's like, whoa, whoa, you just said this whole orchestrated system.

that I am self-regulating through all these enzymes. You just threw it out of balance. It's so frustrating to see human beings think they know better than our own physiology. But is there any evidence that these DHA, preformed DHA supplements are increasing heart disease? Yes. Tell us about that. And I just explained a little bit about it, but here's the deal with DHA.

Preformed DHA is known. It is not arguable. It is known to cause cellular fluidity. That's how much fluid is in a cell. There are membranes to the heart that have a very delicate balance on how much fluidity. Too much fluidity can get bad things into the cell. When you make something very fluid, it means things are porous and can come into the cell.

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We see this with prostate and DHA too as well, that actual toxins can get into the prostate and increase your risk for prostate cancer because it's too fluid. So you don't want too much DHA. If you look at the conversion, ALA, SDA, ETA, EPA, DPA, and then DHA at the very bottom, why is DHA the last conversion step? Because you have five opportunities

to slow down or stop the conversion so that the body can regulate DHA. So the body has a very, very tight control of how much DHA is in the system, so it doesn't cause hyperfluidity of tissues that could be damaged because of this. This is why our body has it at the very last step. You know, if you could turn on and off the spigots at each rate.

you can make sure the bottom one only gets the exact amount you need. And we're throwing it in at the bottom here and just overriding the whole system, causing it to go out of balance. It's interesting with arachidonic acid, most people are saying, seed oils, high in omega-6 causing inflammation because omega-6 converts to arachidonic acid, which is pro-inflammatory. arachidonic acid is pro-inflammatory. And there's a good reason for that.

We need pro inflammation at times. When you get injured, it swells up. That's a healing process. When you work out, you actually increase the release of arachidonic acid in the muscle and that sends a cell signaling, hey, come over and build and repair this muscle because you just stressed it. Well, this is great. This is what arachidonic acid for. So they did a study and said, well, if that's the case, let's take Omega-3 LA from plants, right? The first one.

give them six times the amount that's average used in America. 600 % increase and see how it affects arachidonic acid. Zero effect on arachidonic acid because the body did not convert that LA because it didn't need it. So the body is only converting. They said, well, what about the opposite? What if we reduced the, so they almost eliminated 90 % because we do need some omega-6.

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And so they took 90 % away from the diet and zero change in the amount of arachidonic acid in the bloodstream. The body is maintaining homeostasis regardless of your intake of seed oils or omega-6. Omega-6s don't cause inflammation. Inflammation is a response to the body needing inflammation. Now, you can actually take

dietary arachidonic acid and increase arachidonic acid levels in the body. But arachidonic acid is not found in the plant kingdom. It is only found in flesh products. So the only way you can get preformed arachidonic acid, same with DHA, the only way you can get preformed DHA is animal products. And both of them

preformed DHA and preformed arachidonic acid can cause health detriments in the human body. Clearly, once again, we're seeing ALA and LA, the omega-6 and the omega-3 only come from plants and the body can regulate and keep perfect balance for each tissue, for each age, for each individual through its regulatory process. When you dump in DHA or arachidonic acid,

only comes from animals, not found in the plant kingdom, either one at all, you disrupt the balance of omegas in the human body. So it's another case of if your body synthesizes it, maybe you shouldn't be getting it preformed from an external source. Correct. Same with thyroid hormone or testosterone. They tell you if you go on thyroxine or armor, you're going to be on thyroid hormone the rest of your life.

because it causes the body to shut down its own production. You are interfering with the natural processes of the human body if you are taking pre-formed DHA from algae or fish or pre-formed arachidonic acid by eating animal products. It's really clear based on the foundational, remember, these are essential fats. We cannot survive without them. And the best forms only come from plants.

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They are not found in the animal kingdom. Now, you mentioned this Dr. Gundry, who I've seen on TV. He's got something against lectins, doesn't he? Tell us about that. Yeah. So tell us what lectins are. So lectins are part of the human defense system to protect us against cancer cells. Why anyone would be talking down lectins?

I encourage anybody listening to this to type in the words in Google, plant lectins cancer. What you're gonna see is a whole host of studies showing all the benefits of plant lectins. All right, so they bind to carbohydrates, lectins do. Okay, this is a really good thing because then we can actually take, our body can take these plant lectins and feed them to cancer cells to cause them to die.

disrupt their growth, stop them from growing, and then kill them. So this is a line of defense. Our body uses these plant lectins to kill cancer cells on a day-to-day basis. So I'm thinking like, my God. So we see from research, when we are not getting enough plant lectins from plant-based foods, our body figured out a way to copy the lectins that are in plants and make our own.

to try to kill these cancer cells.

cancer oncologist teams about there and found that these carbohydrate bound lectins are so effective at killing cancers, they're now attaching their drugs to that so that the body will go feed their drugs to the cancer cell, a way of targeting the cancer drug to that because our body is so used to feeding lectins to kill cancer cells in our body. Why would anyone stop using these?

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So the body produces its own lectins? Human lectins are, yes, and you can look that up. They're called endogenously formed or formed inside by our body. Our body creates its own lectins to mimic the health benefits of plant lectins. So is there any difference in the efficacy of endogenous versus exogenous lectins?

So our body normally would depend on plant-based sources, because it's coming in in our food supply on a regular basis. So it really shouldn't have to produce it. It does it as a backup system, like in the case of starvation. Hey, if I can't find any foods or it's cold out and there's just not enough greens around and I'm forced to eat an animal product for survival, the body says, well, that's OK. I'll make my own for right now. It's a backup system. It's like a...

a donut tire for your car. It's not something you want to drive on every day, but it keeps you alive. mainly we get our lectins from foods. What are the best foods to eat as sources of lectins? Beans and grains, the highest sources of lectins. If you read Dr. Gundry's book, those are the ones he tells you to cut out. And what is his theory? Why does he think beans and grains and these lectins

are bad for you if they have anti carcinogenic properties. Okay, good. There are some beans that produce a lot of these lectins and I think white kidney beans and that if you eat them raw, they can make you vomit and be very ill. probably won't kill I've never eaten white kidney beans raw. Have you? I don't know anybody who's foolish enough to do so.

when they would most likely be in the dry state if you bought them in the store and break your teeth if you're trying to chew them. by soaking beans, it reduces the phytate levels. By cooking them, it reduces about 90 % or more of the phytates and the lectins. excuse me. So cooking beans really just dramatically reduces the lectin levels and nobody ever experiences it. How many people have you known have thrown up because they've consumed lectins?

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I have known nobody who has achieved that. No one in my lifetime either. Yet they latch on to this one study that someone ate raw kidney beans out of that they were growing and white kidney beans with high lectins and so, see, the plants are trying to kill us. That's proof that the plants are trying to kill us. So that's the whole basis of Lundrie's theory is the one guy who ate the white kidney beans? Correct. Yes. so, look,

Also, when you are eating a high animal-based diet, you change the microbiome to higher bio-producing. Because when you eat saturated fats and high animal proteins, our body has to produce bile in our guts to break down those materials. When you create a bile environment in the microbiome, bio-friendly bacteria can live there, but the short-chain fatty acid producing one...

the ones that feed on plant fibers, they get wiped out. So you are changing the balance from bio-bacteria, which when you eat plants, you increase the short-chain fatty acid producing or fiber eating bacteria. So those eating high amounts of plant foods, which if you're eating beans, you would be eating more plant foods, those people produce a lot more of the bacteria that will break down the lectins and keep them at a moderate base. Now,

If you're an omnivore eating a heavy animal fat and animal protein, you're going to lower those amount of bacteria. And therefore when you eat beans, you're going to have less ability to break down those lectins. So yes, there were studies that showed, Hey, wait a minute. People on the standard American diet, when they ate these high lectin containing foods did have some discomfort and disruption in their microbiome. The problem was they had a bad microbiome, not that the beans were there.

If they were eating more plants, their microbiome would have taken care of that. But of course, they take that study and run. See, when people eat beans and grains, they get this discomfort. No, they get that discomfort because you screwed with the microbiome. You've created dysbiosis in the microbiome. So once again, when you're reviewing studies, you have to factor in, was it done on the general American public?

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If it was, you have to be a little dubious about the results because they're they're testing a sick population. Yeah, and that's that's my question when I see people posting these types of study results, I say compared to what compared to vegans? No.

Compared to other omnivores that are already sick, yes, there is definitely some change there. And that's the challenge. We're not including vegans or people with healthy microbiomes or people with healthy conversion rates because their bodies enzyme production is different. Everything changes when you put different food in your mouth. Your body does a great job at trying to adapt to best handle the food that you're putting in your mouth.

Now, when it changes, it doesn't mean it's changing for good, it's changing for survival. Okay, like if you keep giving people, human beings milk over and over and over after the wean, they will try to produce more the enzyme that breaks down lactose, right? And that's what we've seen in white peoples that move north and continue to do that. Now, if you look at

Populations that didn't drink milk, like black people or Asian people or indigenous Americans. You see no way that you can give them milk and they won't have the symptoms. 75 % of the population of planet Earth is lactose intolerant. But that's described wrong. It's no, 25 % are lactose tolerant because they've adapted for survival. It's not, it's the other way around.

The natural way is nobody should be drinking milk past weaning stage. But they reverse Much less the milk of cows. Another animal. Bizarre. What about this idea that your diet should reflect your blood type? Any evidence for that one?

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One of the foundations, and there's many different things, the blood type diet was debunked decades ago. I don't know why that's still around for God's sake. Look, I'm type O and I've been vegan for 40 years. I mean, seriously, does that look like I'm having a problem with my diet? I don't think so. And look, it's not just about my physical health, because most people say, that's just exercise, but I'm 62 years old. don't have, you know.

I'm in the best shape of my life. I'm in the best health. don't take any medications, no drugs whatsoever. I don't have any disease states. My blood pressure is perfect. And there isn't longevity in your family, is there? No. Unfortunately, both my mother and father died before they reached 60. Both of my brothers died before they reached 60. And I'm 62 years old and I'm pushing 450 pounds in the gym today. So it's...

It's the plants. really is. Plants are medicine. That's 60 % of all of our medicinal drugs for healing come from plants. I just want to note that I also in the gym today pushed 450 pounds, but it didn't move. Yeah, I guess that's a good caveat. Yeah. But you know, I had hernia surgery not long ago, so I can't compete with you right now. I think you got hymnia, right? Not hernia.

Hemia? Hemnia? What's hemnia? That's the male version, Never heard of that. Hemnia is the male version of hernia. Oh, I see. Hemnia. No. I go to whenever I get a the rest of the jokes to you. I to Florida where you've got the best hernia surgeon in the country. Your state. So blood type diets, no evidence for that, huh?

Part of the reason they found foundation was that the assumption that typo diet was the original blood type of humans. That part is true. So with every one of these fads, they pick one aspect that is inarguably true and accurate, and then they build this other story all around it that is not. So that part is true. Typo was the original blood type before different variations came around. But the assumption was,

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Oh, we were meat eaters back then cavemen all we ate is meat. Almost all of the studies coming out, including the new radioactive studies. So carbon, which is the backbone of carbohydrates and proteins breaks down at a certain level and leaves a fingerprint in our bones. So we can actually now look at the bones and see what ancient peoples were eating.

Every single study that is coming out has shown 90 plus percent plant products. So we look at the capitalites, which are the fossilized human poop. Every single continent, they found at least 100 grams per day intake of fiber. Now, modern Americans are eating 10 to 15 grams of fiber. That means they were eating 10 times the amount of plants we eat today.

So if you say you want to eat like the ancient humans, you better start munching a whole lot of whole plants. And that's my way of going through the days to see how many plants can I eat today? Let's say I'm taking a tempeh sandwich.

I would never just have a tempeh sandwich. would always say, OK, let's put different types of lettuce on it. Let's put cucumber on it. Let's put tomato on it. And you just add the plants all day long. Totally. Now, how about how about taurine and creatine? There are some myths going around with these.

Yes, the list goes on. Oh, you can't get carnosine. You can't get taurine. You can't get blah, blah, blah. can't get... Well, some of this is true. But every single one of these you can find either are implant foods in the right amounts and the right forms, or they are produced by the human body, like creatine. Creatine is produced endogenously. So our body makes its own creatine and taurine.

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So when you look at, so here's interesting how the assumptions from a study can be quite different from what the body is actually doing. So they looked at people and they found those were the highest rates of taurine had the longest lifespan. And they look at the diets and they say, oh my God, plants don't make taurine, which is true. It's actually made only by animals. Guess what humans are?

We're an animal. wow. That means we make it just like every other animal on the planet does. How about that? Now, there's actually some carnivores that don't like cats that don't produce their own taurine. So they need to get it from their diet. Hence, they're carnivores. They eat other animals to get that. Now, that's probably cause and effect because they get so much out taurine outside of their body. Their body said, well, we don't need to produce our own.

just like what we were talking about with the DHA, right? If you're getting it from outside the body, the body says, well, I don't need to make it. So they stopped producing taurine altogether and dodged sleep. Now, all herbivores make their own taurine. Guess what humans do? I wonder if we're herbivores then. Okay, so they say, yeah, but because you're lower intake, you're gonna have shorter lifespan. No, that's not true. Those eating plants actually have longer lifespans. Over and over again, we've seen that in studies.

Okay, wait a minute. Well, what happens to elderly people when their taurine levels drop? They found that exercise, the less you exercise, the less taurine your body produces. So your body produces taurine in a response to exercise. The more you exercise, the more taurine your body makes. wait a minute. That means the more you exercise, the longer you live because you have higher taurine levels. Yep.

So it's not the taurine that caused the longer lifespan, it's the exercise which increased taurine, which is what they see in the longer living. And what does taurine do for the human body? Taurine has a whole bunch of different functions in the human body on cellular levels, but important for muscle growth, important for energy production, on and on. But our body, again, will make the amount of taurine it needs, especially if you're exercising.

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Could that be either aerobic exercise or resistance exercise? They found a higher taurine response to resistance exercise than endurance exercise. So some sort of strenuous exercise. And you could potentially do endurance to a stress level that would cause intensity to get a response. But generally, it's a response to resistance training. OK.

What about zinc? You better off on a vegan diet or an omnivorous diet for zinc? So zinc is one of those minerals that has been unfortunately depleted from our soil, just like iodine has. This is a problem of us not getting it in our food supply because of modern agricultural practices.

If we were actually folding in plants back into the ground, we would be recirculating the zinc that the plant actually pulls up from the soil. Instead, they're just putting artificial synthetic fertilizers on the soil, which give them the nitrogen the plant needs to grow, but it's not remineralizing the soil. You keep doing that year after year in a monocrop, which is growing a single crop there, it's going to deplete the soil of zinc.

of iodine and, God, what's the other one? One other mineral that I can't think of right now. But we're depleting the soil because of our modern farming practices. We need to start putting these minerals back into the soil so that they're in our food supply. It's not the food that's a problem. Don't blame the plants for what humans are doing to the plants. Let's understand that and.

right now we've got to be a little bit more careful to make sure we get proper iodine intake to for sure we get proper zinc intake. But don't blame that on the plants being too low in zinc and iodine. It's because we've depleted them from that. Okay, so veganic or regenerative vegan agriculture would be a solution there. 100%. But in the meantime, should

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Should we vegans take any supplements for zinc or iodine? Or use a micro and nutrient calculator like my fitness pal or chronometer and track your food to see for sure if you're meeting your minimum requirements through your food. If you're not, either change your diet so that you are like including pepitas or

pumpkin seeds, which are a good source of zinc and a regular part of your diet or including a hazelnut, but once or a Brazil nut rather to get proper amounts. But it's also good for selenium. That's the other one I was trying to think of. Yes, selenium actually met the doctor wrote the book on selenium and showed that we've depleted it by 95 % out of the soil and

practices. So again, selenium depletion is a problem. If you're not getting enough, don't lie to yourself saying, I'm eating healthy plant based, I'm getting enough. No, track it. Make sure you're getting enough because your body doesn't doesn't go by, hey, you believe you're getting enough, we're good. No, it needs enough selenium to work, period. Can you track it with a blood test as well? You could. Yeah, you can get that's actually

more beneficial because it's not just about how much is in your diet, how much is actually getting into the system. That's even more important. So if you have the money to pay for regular testing, that's the ideal way to make sure your diet is meeting the needs. Would a blood test for these minerals run into the same problem that a blood test for iron runs into, which is that there are iron stores that aren't in the blood?

Yes, and that's where you can get into a little bit. Look, we can do the best we can with the current testing methods we have. There are more advanced testing methods which actually look at DNA, which look at cellular levels. There's biopsies, though I don't know that people want to go around doing punch biopsies all over their body, especially your brain, to find out if you're enough nutrition. there's, you know, for the average person, we got to do the best we can, which tracking or blood test,

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you know, once a year at least blood tests to find out where your levels are and everything, and then start addressing them either through your diet. Because look, if you work out, it's going to change your nutritional needs. If you are exposed to certain things because of your workplace or because of your whatever, if you're not as active, that's going to change things. If your gut health is different, if you've taken antibiotics, it's going to change your gut microbiome levels. Gut microbiome produces

vast majority of vitamin K2 in healthy individuals. If you take antibiotics, you could wipe out the K2 producing gut bacteria and not know that you're deficient. You're getting it in the diet, but your gut microbes aren't there to convert it. get it as K1 in the diet and the microbiome converts it to K2, right? Correct. Exactly. And then further, the liver can convert it to the different MK forms.

MK7, MK4, 10, 13, all of them. Yes, so, but if you don't know that you have a gut dysbiosis because of antibiotic use or because of food poisoning that once happened when you ate at a restaurant or whatever, it's good to know these things. And the more we can know, the better. There are some things that will be fixed by good healthy eating. There are some things that we may not know like genetic polymorphisms.

This is genes that we have, they're just active that may be different from the vast majority of people. Like APOE4 is a common tract gene, and there are about 20 % of our population, maybe some say up to 30%, that have only one copy of APOE4, which makes them a little less efficient at converting ALA to DHA. So there are ways to get around that nutritionally.

And if you have a genetic variant, you can get tested to find out if you have these genetic variations. And then there are nutritional and lifestyle interventions that you can do to help with this. It's good to know instead of guessing. Now, let me ask you about something that's in a supplement that you sell. and full disclosure, I have used that supplement and it has raised my levels of vitamin D3. But

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What about vitamin D3? Are a lot of Americans suffering from a deficit of D3? So the largest studies done, population studies done, show up to 90 % of Americans are insufficient in vitamin D3. They're not in optimal level range. There can be some debate about what is optimal level, but this is, we're looking at

Are there risks for health conditions when you're insufficient? And 100 % there are. We look at virus impacts. So vitamin D3 triggers our immune to produce a really cool amino globulin called catholicidin. Catholicidin is one of the biggest punches our immune system has to defeat viruses. In this age,

of pandemics, I think it's probably one of the most important things that can happen. Okay, the common cold is a virus. A virus we picked up from being around horses. It transferred from horses to humans because we rode horses all the time. So we got this virus from horses. All right, when does colds and flu mostly happen? In the winter. And the winter. And why is that?

because this is when our vitamin D3 levels hit rock bottom. So our body is... always assumed it's because it's cold. No, it's because of sunlight. So we have the Earth and we have the Sun coming in. And when it's coming in straight, we get high vitamin D3 activation when the Sun hits our skin. When the Earth tilts and it's cold, the Sun reflects off the surface.

and we don't get vitamin D3 activation. So if you're at North Carolina or higher, during the winter, you're getting almost no vitamin D3 activation because of the curvature of the earth and because sunlight is just not reaching us in sufficient amounts to cause vitamin D3. So if you look at studies, you can see us go from summer at the highest levels of D3, and winter at the bottom, and then summer, and it goes up in this perfect U shape.

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And you see that if you test every single month in humans, people living above this parallel, I'll do that. Vitamin D3 and overweight people. We have 77 % of our population is overweight or obese. Okay, D3 is fat soluble. So our fat sucks up vitamin D3 and holds it and it makes it inactive. So the more body fat you have, the more vitamin D3 you actually need.

We know this to be true. If you look at the COVID deaths, the highest rates were those with obesity and diabetes. The highest rates were in the winter months, and the highest rates were among Black and Hispanics compared to white people. Lastly, the highest rates were in elderly. Elderly have the lowest D3. Blacks and Hispanics produce melanin. Okay.

The reason black people have higher amounts of melanin is because they get too much sun coming to their skin. So their body produces melanin in the skin to darken the skin and reflect the sunlight so they don't overproduce vitamin D3. So skin color in Hispanics and blacks is actually a response to regulating the amount of vitamin D they produce in the body. So skin color is all about vitamin D3.

If we didn't need vitamin D3, there wouldn't be any difference. I didn't know that. So that's why we see a higher rate of people dying of COVID from in Hispanics and blacks because they actually need a lot more D3 because their conversion rate is so much lower to the active forms called 2508. So this is why supplementation. We've come indoors. We're

you know, not exposed to the levels of sunlight that every other animal on the planet is. Free animal, should say. Except for the bat, I guess. Yeah, exactly. And they have other ways of getting that. But so that that's the challenge is we've taken the human out of the sunlight. And that hence our levels of D3 are plummeting and why people are dying of viruses because this whole D3 catholicide and

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chain of reaction. Calicidin has six different ways of killing viruses. It eats away the envelope, the protective layer of the virus, so our body can kill it. It binds to the spikes so that it can't attach to ourselves to prevent it from spreading. It injects into it a scrambling device that scrambles the mRNA so it can't reproduce and multiply. MRA scrambling.

mRNA vaccines. Oh, I wonder where they got that idea from. Catholicidin. It's one of the key ways that our body uses to kill it, except it doesn't produce any of the negative side effects that we're seeing with the vaccines. So, yeah, six different ways it has for killing it, including apoptizing it, which sends some chemicals inside the virus cell itself and causes it to eat itself.

Let's talk about one more compound, which can also be taken as a supplement, which is IP6. IP6 is one of my favorite compounds on the planet. I want it to end with a favorite of yours, Yeah, such a cool, cool story. IP6 protects plant iron from oxidizing. It's one of the most powerful antioxidants that we know of.

IP6 also called phytic acid or phytate. Remember, doctor, doctor, all these doctors saying phytates are killing you. No, just the opposite. protecting you. So phytate can then be broken off from the iron and then the iron released and go inside of our body. Now, what does that phytate do? Three different things, actually four different things. One, it protects our cells from being damaged by free

radical iron, like heme iron. So it says, I'll block that by binding to any free iron and taking it out of the body so that it can't oxidize and destroy cells. Protection, number one. Number two, it can actually repair the cell and keep it functional if it has some damage to it. Three, if this cancer cell has gone too far, it can go in and kill, apoptize the cell.

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So it's a cancer killer. But here's the coolest thing about IP6. It can actually go into the cell attached to the DNA and correct the DNA and turn a cancer cell back into a normal, healthy functioning cell. It's called cancer reversion. It's reverting a cancer cell back to a normal, healthy cell. There is not a drug on this planet

that can do what beans and grains can do for you every single time you eat them. Now it's in beans and grains. What about when people take supplemental IP6? they hope for those kind of miraculous results? So let me preface with IP6 is a natural supplement.

You and do you do you does your company clean machine make any IP six? We do not make IP six because IP six has a supplement in this particular use is used for therapeutic and should be used and directed only by a physician or practitioner of your choice could be a holistic practitioner or naturopath, whatever, but this should be used under the advice and direction of that.

And I say that because the amounts that you would use for someone with cancer would be therapeutic amounts, not normally found in our food supply. I encourage people to type in IP6 and just Google IP6 cancer, just those two, capital I, capital P, six. And that stands for enositol hexa, enositol six, phosphatate.

That's the chemical name of IP6. So it's IP, capital I, capital P dash six, and then type in cancer. You're gonna see a bunch of cancer studies that show IP6 reverses cancer cells, blocks cancer cell metastasization, which is what kills people. It's extraordinary. Now, it's effective for certain types of cancers that have been tested so far. They haven't tested it on all cancers.

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But all the ones that they've tested on so far has been very effective. I had an N1, that's what they call in the science study, an N1, meaning how many people were in the study, N being the number of people, one being one person. So when you say it just as an anecdotal, it's N1. So I had a guy come into the store I was managing and said, look, I have kidney cancer.

It's the size of a grapefruit and they want to take out not one but both of my kidneys. And they probably give me six years left to live if I do that because of dialysis. He said, is there anything I can do before I do the surgery because my life's pretty much over after this decision. I said, I've been reading this research on IP6. They have PhDs on staff, this particular company, I believe it was Thorne Research. They can talk to you directly. I can't.

because it's not legal for me to talk about cancer or use of supplements for that. And he did that. And he called them and introduced and they walked him through a procedure and stuff like that. I didn't hear from him from several months. And then I saw him walk through the door. And I'm like, my god, you're still here. And he came up and gave me a big hug. And he's I started watering up and he said, it's gone. It's gone. And he goes,

I want to thank you, my kids want to thank you too, because they get to keep their dad. And when you hear stuff like that, it's like, I got this is why I do what I do. You know, people say, oh, you sell supplements because you want to make money and you're all about the money. Like, God, there couldn't be anything further from sure. Hey, look, we have to make money to eat and survive. But what I do is look for

what the science is, what our physiology is, and what the plants are producing, and try to bring those together to show people, hey, this is what the research is saying, it's not getting out to the public, so I'm gonna talk about it, and here's what the plants are doing that can help us with that particular situation. Because I think it empowers people to make decisions over the life that could have huge impacts, like this guy who had the kidney cancer.

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I mean, that's just for me, that's everything why I do what I do. And, you know, my mother and father and both brothers being dead before 60, I didn't have this information, you know, that I could have helped them and maybe, maybe they'd still be here today. I would love that. And, and I know there are other people out there that have wife and kids that have husbands that have daughters and children.

relatives, people they love and care about, that if they have this information, they help them. And they could be here. If I can do that for just one person, I'm good. I will have lived a life that is very fulfilling to me. That's why I do what I do. That's why I love coming out and talking about with you is because we can make a big difference in people's lives. Suffering sucks.

There's no two ways around it. And I think we need to get beyond this dogma and polarization and tribalism around food. And let's go back and say, let's drop all that dialogue. It's not us against them. It's everybody on this planet. We all don't want to suffer. We all want to live healthier. No one wants to suffer from a debilitating disease like dementia or Alzheimer's. Let's talk about the research, not from you're right, I'm wrong.

But let's just see, is this a better choice for me to make for my health, for my children's health, for my parents' And then let's have a real dialogue and let's get beyond this polarized dogmatic thinking of this tribalism. It's hurting people and it's preventing us from understanding how to treat our body right. Okay, I'm off my soapbox. Jeff, keep doing what you're doing.

This is why I consider you one of my best fruums. I love that. And, you know, and it turns out that the diet that you and I recommend of eating plants all day long is also the best diet for the planet. And there might just be a reason for that. So people can find you at

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cleanmachineonline.com. And if you're following on Facebook, I post almost daily on all the latest research on health and nutrition and fitness for you to use. I always publish the links so that you can read the studies yourself. I distill down what's in the study if you're not scientifically inclined to make it real simple speak so that you can understand. Beautiful thing about the human body is that it's so intuitively

Brilliant. If we just understood it, we see how amazing this human body and our physiology really is. But you can catch that anytime on Jeff Palmer. Just search for me on Facebook and you'll see my posts on a regular basis. Well, for those who've just listened to this whole podcast, you know that I began by saying that in my opinion, Jeff knows more about nutrition than most doctors. Just imagine if I had had this conversation with your MD.

Imagine your MD trying to handle these questions that Jeff has just given us so much information about. So thank you again, Jeff. We will see you soon. I know you've got some new products coming up that we haven't discussed, but we will be discussing them soon. And I know they're going to be remarkable. everybody,

Just follow Jeff online and keep up with Clean Machine Online. Take care.